Full Send Finance with Roman Villard

Hello, and welcome to the Big Four Transparency podcast. I'm joined today by Roman Vila, the founder of Full Send Finance, and all around just a really cool social media presence in the world of CPAs. Welcome to the pod, Roman. Thank you, Dominic. Thank you. So to kick us off, can you walk us through what Full Send Finance is and kind of your journey to getting it to where it is today? Yeah, so Full Send Finance is an outsourced accounting and finance provider for early stage companies. When you think about traditional CAS offerings, which has changed a lot over the years, we lean very heavily into the advisory side of accounting advisory, working with companies with complex needs as they grow and scale their businesses. How we got here, boy, that's a long story. Ultimately, in 2022, I, like many others, recognized the challenge that the accounting industry faced from a standpoint of lack of technology adoption, lack of clear and concise and attractive messaging and branding, and then the opportunity that existed in the market. All of those things coalesced around, maybe I can take a shot and see if it works to stand up my own entity. And so I did that with a really heavy emphasis on trying to build an ethos and a brand first. And so that's really kind of what launched the idea, the company, and ultimately what is today Full Send Finance. Awesome. And so, I mean, right off the bat, Full Send is a very different kind of branding. You'd hear old name, old name, and old name, LLP, as kind of whatever kind of firm name. And so Full Send, personally, being from Canada, I'm like, oh, that's the Nelk Boys. If any lawyers are asking if I hear Full Send, I didn't just say that at all. But you know what I mean? There's a certain brand associations with party lifestyle, maybe extreme sports, stuff like that. You have a surfboard in your background. So definitely like a very different kind of, I guess, branding than most firms have. So I'm curious to know how has that influenced, I guess, firm performance and then just maybe overall culture? Yeah, it's interesting you ask that. I wasn't aware of the Nelk Boys or their podcast until after I started the firm. And thankfully, they don't offer accounting or financial solutions. And so there are no trademark infringements. I have looked into that. However, when you talk about the influence and the brand, the term for me, it's really resonant with the thing that makes you come alive when you think about extreme sports, you think about passion and energy and commitment to things. And I really just wanted to evoke that ethos, that thought while developing a brand. And so it's really influenced our ability to just resonate with the market really, really well in terms of we serve startups, we serve early stage companies. Oftentimes, it is a younger demographic of an individual who has heard of the term, but also that's not completely determinate based on age. We found that a lot of industries like outdoor recreation see full send and they're like, oh, hey, that clicks. And so we've gotten some inbound opportunities from that, which has been really cool to see because we relate to those types of companies a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that like branding is is kind of like a key for people to find maybe the niche in the audience that they want? Like like I'm curious because I know some people in the profession, right? Like one of the guys that I started off with at Deloitte, like he lives for skydiving. Like he cranks out 50 tax returns and then does 10 jumps like that's his that's his motivation or whatever. And do you like do you have advice for someone who maybe identifies as that individual who's entering the profession and wants to make sure that they can kind of keep that side of them alive? Yeah, man, that's a great question. I love it. You know, it's interesting when you think about those things that make you come alive, those things that you're passionate about. And then when you're thinking about potentially building something of your own, I think about this example that you give, you know, he could go out and start a an accounting or finance company, a CAS practice geared towards skydiving entities, he could call it parachute finance, they could talk about that ethos and how it comes alive. And so ultimately, the branding, the the company name gives you a lot of opportunity to to evoke emotion, to evoke a response from other people, either intentionally or unintentionally, you will get some type of reaction. And so I think it gives you a lot of really good real estate to understand how can we help others connect better with what we're trying to do here. And is that ever something you worry about, like limiting growth kind of at a certain level and going forward, or do you just think like the world is so big that there's always just going to be enough people kind of to grow into? I think the world is so big, there are big enough small industries for people to find their corners that makes sense for them. That being said, I believe that for us as accountants with the way the technology is moving forward, we will have to continually be adopting and evolving what we're doing in order to stay current. And I think brand has a big, big part in that. You know, right now we talk about recruitment and retention being one of the biggest challenges in our industry. And if I'm 22 years old, I'm probably not going to go look at Smith, Jones and Hughes at the career fair. I'm probably going to look at Full Send, I'm going to look at Acuity, I'm going to look at Reconciled, I'm going to look at Anomaly. There's all these cool firms out there that I think resonate really well with the next generation. Yeah, yeah. So has recruiting been, I won't say easy because obviously everything has its own challenges, but like has recruiting been maybe easier for you than what you hear from most other people as a result of that? I like the way you phrase that because I don't I would never call it easy. However, we have seen that a number of individuals have inbounded to us saying, hey, are you are there any roles open? When's the next role going to be posted? These are individuals that we don't have any connection to. And these, you know, range from like nearly partner level at Big Four all the way down to college graduates. And so I believe a lot of that has to do with how we've positioned ourselves online, how we've been very consistent in content creation. And so it has been really helpful as a starting point for us in our recruiting journey. And so it's hard to have direct attribution to brand there, but I do believe it plays a big part in that. Yeah, like people probably have some understanding of what it might be like working at a place like that, I guess. Right. So you probably already have a little bit of self-selection where I'm sure you have less of the person walking in and going, oh, my God, like on week one, this is not for me like this is this is insane. So a little bit of self-selection. You mentioned people who are like near the partner level at Big Four getting in touch. What are those conversations like? Are they kind of mostly looking for a lifestyle change at that point or like what does that look like? Yeah, so we had an individual out of, I believe, Michigan director level at Big Four reach out saying, hey, I'm looking for something with more FP&A focused, working with startups, working with really innovative companies. I'm looking for that next step in my career to to branch out. And we didn't get into depth as to how and why he got to the point where he was in his career track to say, why is now the right point to leave? I suspect it was something to the effect of the alignment between where he was in his firm and where they wanted him to go. Like there's just a lack of alignment there. And so while that individual wasn't the right fit for us, what that enabled me to do is introduce him to other firms that we're connected to to say, hey, this this individual is looking for a role outside of the context of a large firm. He might be a good fit. And so I was able to make some introductions, even though I never met the guy before. But I felt for him, like I understand there's some degree of pain in the journey that exists in the way that he's gone. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's this new generation of firms coming up with like, you know, that they seem really cool, like they seem fun places to be. Like Brandon Hall, who I've worked with really closely, like I think that when I was leaving the Big Four firm I was at, that would have been a top contender. Obviously, like that's in the U.S., but I think that would have been a place I would have really loved to work. Just seeing how he empowers his employees to be kind of like really active on the business development side, creating their own brands, essentially. I think that that's awesome. And there's lots of kind of other ones. Like I think what Logan's doing is super cool. Logan Graff, I love what you're doing. When I was at the Big Four, one of the partners, there was a little bit of a situation where he wasn't super happy with some of the things. And I was like, I was kind of hoping like I was like, oh, if this guy jumps, I'm with him. This is going to be great. And then that didn't end up happening. But it is cool to see that like there's different like there's different options where like if the culture and like the kind of very heavy kind of corporate lifestyle isn't for you, it doesn't mean you need to leave accounting services, which is cool. Yeah. And I like that you bring up, you know, Brandon Hall and Logan and what some of these folks are doing in the market, because I've never had the chance to meet Brandon. We've we've traded messages a few times. However, I think about Brandon when I have any real estate opportunities, that's not our space. And I see what they put out there. And I associate a really good place to work with what him and his team have put out on social media. And I'm like, man, that is organic. That is something that he didn't even have to pay for. You know, they're just creating content. They're really moving the same direction digitally. And again, I haven't met him, but I would recommend anybody to go follow him who's in the real estate tax or accounting landscape. I mean, he's done a great job. Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And not even just him. There's like two or three other people at his firm who I just see online so much like they're they've become like inevitable everywhere I go. It's like, you know, and I'm not even in the US, none of this is relevant to me and it still gets served to me. Yeah, I think really clear branding is like a good way for those kind of organic referrals. Right. I think a lot of the legacy firms, they almost count on employees who leave and have good relationships to kind of refer stuff back because they don't necessarily have that clear branding. They're just like, we'll do whatever. And that's clearly worked. I think I've referred in the high five figures worth of work to the old firm that I left like in the last four or five months just because I've been really visible. And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm not I'm not touching that tax work with a 10 foot pole. So I think that that does obviously work for legacy firms who've turned through a ton of people. But if you just have that clear branding, you're you're more likely to get that referral. Right. So that's interesting. And so so what compelled you to kind of go that path and launch your own firm? Like we talked about that almost partner who is kind of sick of it and we don't know totally why. What were your reasons to kind of decide that you needed to try something new? You know, it's a hard journey to to expand upon because for me, I think there's a there's a lot of drivers. So my father is an entrepreneur of many, many years. And so I got to see that that work ethic, that challenge, the struggle, the highs and lows of that journey growing up. And what I remember very fondly is while my dad was up and at the office for a five a.m. every single day, he was also at our practices and he was our coaches growing up and he was very present. And so just looking at the opportunity that him being an entrepreneur provided him to be able to be there for me when I was a 10 year old soccer player, that was really something that I really desired for myself and for my family. And it takes a tremendous amount of sacrifice. And that's not the outcome for every entrepreneur. However, I thought, boy, if I can if I can put some work in and I can not only create an impact with clients, I can also create an environment where I'm able to spend this time with with my kids the way that my dad did for me. And so that had a great impact on our decision making and starting the company. The other side of it was just opportunistically in my last role, I saw a lot of firms serving the earlier stage bookkeeping accounting market that were just completely full of work. And in my opinion, weren't doing it in the way that I thought was as efficient as possible. And so I'm like, maybe there's an opportunity there. So, yeah, that just encouraged me. And that, among many other conversations with mentors and my wife and family, that led to starting things off. Yeah. Yeah, I think the CAS model is very interesting for for sort of building up your own firm. Like at the time for me, like I had gone up the tax route and I was like, OK, well, it's I'm happy I did that because tax is the only way that you can branch out and start your own firm because you're not going to as an individual go out and do like, hey, do you need an audit? Like, come come hit me up and I'll do it on the weekend. Right. But CAS kind of like opens up that door. For kind of a new model and beyond being an opportunity for kind of people who maybe didn't go up the tax route, I think that it's really interesting because of that more kind of recurring nature of the business. Like one of the reasons why SAS business model is so hot is that it's like, you know, you can count on those revenues coming through. You calculate churn rates, NDR, all that. And you can kind of do that for CAS as well. So is that kind of like a really calculated step in doing the CAS and then maybe like doing advisory to kind of increase margins? Or is that just sort of you're following your passion going into that? Yeah, it's a good question, and I'll start by answering that with audit did not provide me a great background at all for doing accounting. Yeah, it provided me a phenomenal understanding of how to interpret and apply accounting code. So I like to allude to that experience as I knew exactly how the puzzle looked like when the puzzle was together. What it proved to be quite challenging and having to relearn was how to put the pieces together in order to make the puzzle. And so there was a lot of relearning, just basic accounting systems and matching principles that I didn't do as an auditor. I was looking at the output. All that to say, when we started, we started with a very stagnant three tier model of here's your bookkeeping, here's your bookkeeping plus, and then here's your more controller type service. Very cookie cutter and at the same time was starting to work inside of the target market that really spoke to me with other entrepreneurs, other founders, the startup community. And what I realized was that cookie cutter approach is very challenging for that demographic of company because they're constantly evolving and changing and growing. And so that quickly pivoted us to more of a consultative, custom type pricing and services approach. And then all of this at the same time, we're looking to bring team members on board to to take on additional capacity. And I like community. I like being with people. I like being in an office. And so we started hiring people locally here and just having conversations around what type of work excites you, what type of clients do you enjoy working with? And that in and of itself has really propelled us into more of the advisory side. So less predicated by margin and numbers, but more based on the type of people we're hiring, the type of potential that we're able to create change within our clients. OK, interesting. And with launching Fullsend, I think you I think it's only started in 2022, right? Am I correct? Yeah. Yep. OK, so before that, you were doing kind of some business development type roles. Do you think that that was kind of crucial in the kind of early success of Fullsend so far versus like maybe an accountant who just leaves straight from an actual accounting practice into launching their own thing? And if so, like what are some of the practical things that you think you were able to carry over? Yeah, that's a good question. I do believe that that those experiences instrumentally helped my ability to start a firm and not because I had an existing client base or things like that. But what I learned very deeply through two business development roles was that if I can aim to help somebody where they're at in their business building journey. No matter whether or not it's me and or our team servicing that need. You start to form a relationship, you start to form like true connections with people to be a resource for them when they need help. And so that's what I've always aimed to do, whether it's in business development and sales or here at Fullsend, it's let's meet our prospects and clients where they're at. Let's advise them really well, whether or not we're going to be the ones to service them and then help them get on their way. And so by nature of that type of mentality and approach, paired with spending a lot of time networking and building relationships, that foundation of the net that we could cast to bring in early clients was really, really large. If I were to have been starting a practice out of just kind of being a heads down accountant at a firm, it would have taken much, much longer to start to generate awareness of who we are, what we're doing. Yeah, it would have been a much, much more challenging route. Yeah. And what were some of those methods of generating awareness? Like I know you're super active on LinkedIn, but and that's something I'm trying to start doing. So I actually try to kind of take notes. But are there a lot of things sort of beyond that or like even within LinkedIn, like what was the LinkedIn strategy to drive awareness? The LinkedIn strategy was at first very simple and it was simply post every day. Post every day. I started to develop a little bit more structure around that in that there are three areas in which I want to really lean into when I'm posting. That is, I either want to encourage, inspire or educate individuals through my posts. And I want to utilize that framework of those three arenas overlaid to my target client market, my target connector market. So those that could refer me opportunities and then the target recruitment or potential employee market. And so when I when I pair those two things together, those six things together, there's a lot of ways you can slice and dice how to create content. But ultimately, I will post every single day in any of those arenas. And that has generated a significant amount of awareness. However, similar to the branding side, there is a not a there's an indirect ability to create or to connect opportunities to LinkedIn activity. It's very rarely that I've received a message saying, hey, can I be your client? Sign me up. But more of, hey, I saw a post, you know, or so-and-so sees my activity and then will refer an opportunity. Very difficult correlation there. Yeah. Yeah. Outside of that, it was just heavy physical presence at events, at startup community related items, volunteering time, mentoring for accelerators. Those were also a really big part of how my time was spent early on. Yeah, I could see the the mentoring type work obviously is is a supernatural transition, right? OK, that's interesting. And when you're going to these events, like, are you usually going as like an attendee or are you kind of doing a booth or something like that? That's actually something I'm grappling with at this very minute where I'm like, oh, it's actually not as expensive as I thought to do a demo booth here. But I also like walking around and chatting with people. So I'm curious what worked for you. So for me, we haven't spent any money on any external marketing. All of our dollars related to marketing has been spent on just digital presence and brand. And so my time and efforts was really more in attendance at target market related events versus sponsorships or things like that. And so I was just very intentional about making sure that my time was spent at the right types of events while also understanding like you need to give people in your network opportunity, like you need to listen and learn because you never know where a relationship can go. And so I would say just open every single door that you can and then you'll start to understand which doors you need to continue opening after you spend some time there. OK, interesting. So you've obviously talked a ton about branding and that was like really core to your business. And I think it's probably the reason that I know who you are as well. Right. Like I think you stand out in a world of CPAs where there's a lot of sameness. Right. And so before this, we were talking about you kind of launching a bit of a branding play for accounting firms. I'm curious to hear more about that. Oh, man. You know, it's so interesting. We spent a lot of time and effort developing our brand last year. And it was it was not an inexpensive endeavor, but one that has yielded many, many dividends just in the last nine months having launched it. And so we've actually partnered with and merged with the entity that developed our brand in order to create Full Send Design. So it's Full Send Dot Design. And effectively what we're doing is helping other firms create a really, really quality digital brand for themselves. And I've had several individuals say, well, aren't you just helping them? Aren't you just helping your competition? And in my mind, I'm like, I don't even care if we are. The fact that our industry needs to spend time investing in digital presence, in building something that accountants want to stay in and can relate to and that students really get excited by, that will help propel our industry more than any type of competition that we might create. So we want to help other accounting firms develop incredible brands. And that, in turn, we believe will help them with their recruitment, their retention, their client prospectus and visibility, things like that. Yeah, I love like thinking about accounting as, you know, like with an abundance kind of mindset versus scarcity, like I think. I think that that's a lot of the issue in the industry is people are like, oh, you know, oh, if we pay staff better, that's taking out of the partner's pie. And it's like, well, maybe not. Maybe you're actually just going to dump less money into recruiting and turned customers and and all that. Right. Like there's there's different ways to kind of think about investing in things rather than like, hey, that's a piece of my pie that's going into this. And if you end up helping, you know, one that comes to mind is like pro T services like they help the wine industry or something like that. Like that's no skin off your back. Like nobody's. Nobody's going to like overlap really heavily with you. And so, yeah, I think I think there's a lot of kind of shortsightedness when people are kind of so worried about, oh, that's that's helping our competition. That's, you know, so good on you for that. That's awesome. Yeah, it's one of those things where like we've made a commitment towards our mission of elevating financial data. And that encompasses like our client, our team and our industry. And so we want to help other firms elevate financial data for how they communicate, how they message, how they serve clients, how they train and teach their team. And we believe that brands can have a really big part in helping others elevate financial data. And so we're excited to lean further into that by supporting other firms and their great brands. And, you know, hopefully in the next couple of years, we'll be able to point at a couple of firms and say, hey, check out their website. Look at their new logo. Look at that sweet shirt that dude's wearing. Like that would excite me greatly if it's brands that we support creating. And to be clear, I'm not the one that's actually going to be creating the brand. I'm just helping support that being a beacon of hope for other brands. And we've got a phenomenal team in the background doing that work. Yeah, no, I love that as a niche for like a branding agency, because I think accounting needs it. And beyond just firms, like I think the industry needs it. Right. So it's it's refreshing to see. And I think just in general, I've said this a lot. I think accounting is very underserved by a lot of things that like went into tech. So, like, Big Four Transparency, even, for example, like, I found out after kind of I launched it and all that, people were like, oh, my God, this is the, you know, XYZ of accounting. And then I went and looked at the thing. And I was like, oh, my God, this is actually exactly what I was trying to achieve. And guess what? Like, it was only offered for tech, basically, or only offered at a high quality for tech. And so many services that are offered for tech now, I think, should really consider the accounting industry. And obviously, there's, there's, you know, some progress being made there, like we've got all kinds of softwares coming into support, but even more traditional agencies, like branding and things like that, I think are much needed a bit of a bit of a kind of gear change. But I had a question, actually, about some of the financial advisory services you offer. Is like in offering those, are you usually kind of like a ground up? Like, are you usually serving people who don't have any kind of finance function initially? Or are you often kind of being called in to assist like an existing finance function who's maybe just a little bit out of their depth, a given transaction? Yes, when you think about the advisory side of the business, which I really think about all of our businesses, the advisory side, there are three ways that we work with clients. One, we become your accounting department. Two, we support your accounting department. So we come in and play a role within your accounting department, or three, we advise your accounting department. So when we look at where we are your accounting department, we're creating the entire infrastructure, we may be implementing systems, we're utilizing our own processes to create efficiencies for scalability for our clients. When we support our clients accounting functions, generally, they will have some degree of an existing team, maybe that's a head of finance, maybe it's a CFO, but very rarely have them but have they been able to assemble a full team, and they need us to come in and play a role within that. So maybe it's accountant, maybe it's controller, maybe it's the full team that needs a CFO. But that's us supporting the accounting function. When we look at the advising of a finance function or accounting function, that's when we're coming in effectively with our big thinking hats on and we're saying, hey, what in our own internal processes could we potentially port over to create efficiency as a consultant and implement that for this company moving forward? So it's very project oriented, it's helping companies assess systems and efficiencies and automations to help their accounting functions run more smoothly. So those are really the three areas that we think about writing services to our clients. Okay, interesting. Because I work in FP&A currently, and I kind of think of like, oh, if we were to work with someone, what would that look like exactly? But I guess there's a ton of different contexts. Interesting, interesting. Sorry, go ahead, you were going to say something? Yeah, well, it's interesting, because advisory, or CAS services in general have a significant marketing problem where nobody actually knows what it means or what it is, even in our own industry. And so just you right there mentioning, hey, I work in FP&A, a lot of people will take that and say, oh, well, CAS is just, you know, it's forecasting, it's cash flow modeling, it's it's modeling, or it's a scenario analysis, things like that. Whereas advisory can mean a whole lot of different things. And so while we do have an element that is FP&A leaning, that is advisory, we also look at the accounting side of our business and say, even our accountants can advise a client by saying, hey, here's a quick process change on an invoicing process that could really improve how much time you're actually spending in this process. And that right there is advisory. And it's not creating a model. And so we think about that holistic advisory approach from the very rudimentary transactional level all the way through FP&A. Okay, interesting. And before I let you go, I like to kind of hit a couple rapid fire questions. What was, yeah, good for the little TikTok clips, too. What was the hardest part of launching Full Send Finance? Not having anybody telling me what to do. I have, nobody knows, how do you, there's no guidebook, there's no rules on how to start a company. And so not having somebody to bounce ideas off of is very, very hard at first. Okay. And what was the best part of being out on your own and being fully autonomous with this new business? The best part goes hand in hand with the worst part in that I didn't have anybody telling me what to do. So it was great because I could just go and do whatever I wanted and trial and test and tinker. And I love that, but also likely led me down a lot of paths that just wasted time because I didn't know what I was doing, but I enjoyed the process of it. So it was a blessing and a curse. Okay, interesting. What's your advice for someone who's just starting out in their CPA journey? For somebody that's just starting out in their CPA journey, spend time networking. Go meet people, learn how to communicate, build relationships. All of my roles after graduating college came from preexisting relationships. And it's not because I was a master networker in college. However, when you start to advance in your career, you will find that more often than not, those other people in your network, your community and your relationships will be the ones that will be advocates and potentially provide opportunities for you in the future. I love that. That's very similar to kind of what I say is very much around networking. And then the last one I've got here is who is the individual who should potentially consider starting their own firm? And what are maybe some of the triggers or behaviors that they have within their current job that might be signs that it's time to maybe consider that? I think there are individuals who thrive without structure and that thrive in this nebulous, unknown environment, are excited to kind of be creative and to lean into areas that maybe they don't have a lot of exposure to. Those people, when they are in pretty strict and traditional accounting roles, oftentimes, I believe, feel very limited by those roles. And so maybe they're AP, clerk or AR, or maybe they're a senior auditor and they're continuing to crank out these audits, but just aren't getting exposed to something that's maybe creative, a little bit different, and they feel limited by that. I believe those individuals oftentimes would thrive and do really well in creating their own opportunity because it requires such a high degree of creativity and operating without boundaries. Whereas most accountants really like having those guardrails and really like having the rules-based roles. And so it's not for everybody, but if you are in a role where you just kind of feel like you're constantly bumping up against what the bounds of that role are, exploring entrepreneurship and starting a firm could be fantastic. And I would say, if you're starting to lean into that, think very critically about what brings you joy, what makes you come alive? And is there a possible niche that you can serve that helps feed that personal desire of kind of continuing to make you come alive through your skillset and accounting? So that would be how I think about it. Okay. Yeah. Echoing that, did you ever have those little personality quiz type things by your employer? I know Deloitte does like four quadrants and it was like, there's the guardian, pioneer, driver, and integrator or something like that. And it was really funny to see, they did like a cloud of everyone in the office and everyone was on kind of like that driver or the guardian side, which is like, you like rules, you like it being explained, you like whatever. And then there was like me and two other people on the polar opposite. And within that role, I was kind of like, oh my God, this explains so many of the frustrations or issues I've been having, where I think that if you being who you are kind of causes a lot of frustration or just friction in your role, then yeah, I think entrepreneurship is something worthwhile exploring. And again, doing this website and doing this kind of project and whatever, even the podcast is like the only time where I haven't felt too bounded by what my role is. Yeah. So I think that that's incredibly sound advice for people. It is a blessing and a curse. And it is one of the most difficult journeys anybody will ever take. And I don't want to understate that because entrepreneurship can be glorified very, very easily on social media. And it is hard and requires a significant amount of sacrifice. And so if you're willing to do that and pair that with your creativity and wanting to kind of fulfill that side of your life and your journey, dive in. Yeah. Yeah. I think the represented representation of it on social is like very toxic. Like you get all these like, I forget the guy's names like Iman or whatever is like, just quit your job. And it's like a go yard bag. And it's like, no, dude, like, it's not like, that's not how that works. Okay, well, thank you so much for coming on. And, you know, before we end things, who should be kind of considering signing up for this branding arm? Like, let's, let's do a little plug for for full send branding. And which firms should be looking out for that? Yeah, if you're a one to $10 million in revenue accounting firm, and you feel like your brand isn't connecting to your target market or potential recruits to your business as you hire, full send design may be a good a good outlet for you. So reach out to me. I'm at LinkedIn, Roman Villar, full send financer, fullsend.design.com. And yeah, reach out. Awesome. Thank you for coming on, Roman. Cool. Cheers, Dominic. Thanks so much. Cheers.