CPACon and Professional Pride with Kendale King

Hello, and welcome to the Big Four Transparency podcast. For this episode, I'm joined by Kendale King, founder of CPA Con and KCK CPA. Welcome to the pod, Kendale. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you, Dan. Yeah, my pleasure. So you are like fresh on the heels of hosting the first ever CPA Con. It's a conference that you threw last week is the first kind of edition of it. So I'm curious to hear from you how that went, what attendance look like and maybe what motivated you to to try this out. Got it. OK, well, let's start with what motivated me. I am a huge gamer. I say this all the time. I can I'm competitive on every level. You know, we can play. You can play tic-tac-toe and I'm I'm on it, you know, and so I always love that competitiveness and and then also run a convention of anime, gaming, culture, entertainment convention called DreamCon. And so I have experience doing an event, you know, and I just was really interested in like seeing what that could look like in the accounting space, because we just have a, you know, this whole moniker that we are not fun, that we are boring, that we just, you know, you know, it's just it's just things that I think that we tell ourselves and I think it's things that we're showing other folks that we can't do certain things when I don't think, you know, that's necessarily a limitation that we need to abide by. And so I was watching the Super Bowl and the NBA All-Star weekend. And I just thought to myself, why don't accounting have something like this? And that's where the initial motivation of it came from, created some of the games and, you know, then, you know, took it from there. It was last week on the third, so it was like a week or so ago. Yeah, we go and, you know, you know, I got a big vision. And so the original vision of it was way bigger than, you know, what actually happened. But obviously, it's a first year event. And the goal this year was to get a great proof of concept to let people know that this is possible, that this is something that can, you know, really, you know, be a staying power and, you know, in the accounting space and to prove that it can really help with attracting and retaining, you know, people who are interested in the accounting profession. So we had about, I'm still going through everything because we had different ways that you can access and register, but we had about 95 people who registered. And you know, those people came throughout the day. We did a long, it was a long day, it was a very long day to make use of the space that we had. And again, trying to really get that proof of concept to show the different things that we, you know, could do there. So, you know, throughout the day, we had performances. So you know, from actual dancers and we had a fire lady as well, just to kind of set the mood different. We had a DJ, again, just to be, you know, just have that different feel like that was a big important thing for me was to make sure that it didn't like really resonate as a conference that, you know, someone's been to before. So, you know, didn't want to do it in a hotel, didn't want to, you know, replicate things that a lot of other conferences do. And so I knew, you know, we did it in a church actually, which is actually interesting, but it was like a new age type of church where it's like, it was cool and all the, you know, that nice little LED screen and everything. But we started at eight and didn't end until like seven. And so it was like in performances, we had our games and we had panels and, you know, it was really, it was really good. You know, people were really engaged. I was actually surprised that, you know, a handful of people actually stayed the whole way through. And it was, you know, with traffic and LA and everything as well. So it was horrible. But it was nice. It was nice. That's cool, man. No, I love that you're taking like a big swing on something like this. Like, you know, I think as a general population, a lot of accountants are kind of known for being risk averse and things like that. And I think that in, in, you know, pools of people like that, I think it can be rewarded even more if you're the one who's taking those risks, who's, you know, taking that big swing and trying something new. So no, I'm really happy to see that you kind of, you know, tried something new and it sounds like it was, it was a good enough success. You know, we spoke about it, that there will be an encore for 2025 by the sounds of it. And that's great. So I, and I've spoken with people who've hosted conferences before. And for the record, it seems incredibly difficult to pull off. And a lot of people say like, it's really like the first year is, is very tough. And then it just kind of gets gradually better year over year as you build a brand and reputation and stuff. So hats off to you on that. Thank you. Now that was a huge thing too. Brand and reputation. Cause a lot of people didn't know me from nothing, you know? And so it was important for me to, to lean on, you know, already established brands such as CalCPA, you know, California Board of Accountancy and other professionals I had in my network who did know me, who did understand, you know, you know, kind of what I bring to the table and have the trust and have the, you know, the, you know, support, you know, that, that wanted to support me. But yeah, that was a big thing. And now that, you know, we've did it. And honestly, all I've seen is really, you know, obviously there's some things, you know, that we need to, to work on and to, to be better for sure. But as far as, you know, feedback from, you know, people who went, it's only been positive. That's awesome. So yeah, you worked with CalCPA and then the Board of Accountancy, how, like, how, how does one make that work? So like, even for myself personally, right? Like I find a lot of the kind of like professional bodies, I don't know about those two specifically, but like they're a little bit like, or can be anyways, like stuck in their ways, like not super willing to like adapt, try new things. So what does that look like in terms of like collaborating with them? I think as a, to your point, as a whole across, you know, generally across the industry, that is the case. And I ran up against that when I was, you know, speaking with certain companies and brands who I was looking to, to, to partner with and you know, but for CalCPA and the California Board of Accountancy, they were different. They were, you know, CalCPA is just like really focused on trying to prepare for this next way of accounting, you know, the next, what this next, you know, phase of, you know, professional accounting looks like. And so when I brought the, you know, cause I'm on the board of LA, the LA chapter, and I brought it up there first, and then I was able to get a conversation with Denise Freming, who's the president of CalCPA. And she's like, yes, yes, this is sounds, everything sounds cool. Sounds great. You're way cooler than me. So you can do this with everything, anything you need, you got it. And then by way of that was able to get introduced to the folks at the CBA. And again, just, you know, kind of given the same, you know, pitch and they also saying, Hey, actually, this is great. I think there obviously was a little bit of hesitation as far as superly putting it out there and superly backing it up. And it was also to, to, to credit to them is like, I, you know, was really making this happen this year. So the planning, the, from the creation of the idea to the actual execution was really when they kind of got in, I think I really kind of told them about this in June. And, and then they didn't really get on board or like, you know, we weren't on the same page as far as like getting the final details to like, I don't know, like July or August or something. So they were worried. They were like, can, can this even be done in this timeframe? And I was like, nah, don't worry about it. I'll handle it. You know, I got a team. Like, it's not like, I'm not asking you to, to put it together. I'm not asking it. I'm just asking for your support, send it off to the members, you know, and, and everything like that. And so I do think that there was still some like, Oh, can this be done in this timeframe? And you know, and bless their heart. They were like, you know, it's okay if we move it, it's okay. You know, it was going to be, you know, any type of way, but I'm like, no, this is happening. And it was, again, really necessary for me because I was, as I was having these conversations more and more, I realized I need something to show people, you know, because I can speak to all day about this, but until people actually experience it and until people actually can visually see it, you know, that's the, the turning point. So now that we have that, you know, I'm going to be using that on forward to, uh, to, to do further ones, but yeah, it was actually pretty, pretty, pretty cool. You know, once you, you know, connect with the right people who are looking for that change and again, for the people who are a little stuck in their ways, that's where the visuals help. Yeah. No, and it's impressive that you did pull it off on the timeline you did. Right. Cause I feel like you spoke to me in like October or something and it seemed like some things were up in the air and I was like, Hey, like, is this is like a fire festival situation. Like, I don't know if I want to be like the guy pushing this super hard. And then I kind of like start paying more attention to you, what you were saying and what you stood for and kind of came around and I was like, all right, you know what? Like I really like what this guy's doing at least and what, you know, what you kind of speak about and what, what you kind of represent in terms of like challenging the status quo. And, uh, that's where I kind of came around, but yeah, the timelines and stuff, I was like, it's good to hear you pulled it off. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, people were just like, wow, this is insane. Like, you sure? I'm like, it can be done. It can be done. Uh, it was some last minute pivots. I ain't gonna lie to you. Um, again, I had a bigger vision and a bigger thing. I was like, all right, let's, let's come back down to what we can do. Um, and you know, let's focus on that. And so, um, you know, we made a lot of different pivots, but I'm, I'm the guy that, you know, you get the ball to in the last seconds of the, of the game, you know, cause that's when I'd come. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you talked a lot, pardon me. You talked a lot about these challenges and like the accounting Olympics being kind of a thing that was a part of CPA con. I'm curious to hear like, what was that all about? Like what, what did that look like in practice? What were you hoping to kind of like achieve with that in terms of like the, uh, you know, the, the attendees experience as well? Yep. So that was the, the foundation of what CPA con, you know, was really about and for, uh, I, I knew, obviously I wanted to still have the panels, you know, still wanted to have a, Oh, you know, we're, we're getting all these people together. I still want to be able to give them some solid information. I don't want this to only be about fun and people feeling like, you know, is this just, I'm just wasting my time or something, or I'm just having fun or whatever. Um, and so I knew I wanted to have the panels, but the foundation of this, you know, was to, uh, again, create a sense of fun, create a sense of competition, um, and, and pride as a, you know, as an accountant, you know, and so with the games themselves, we play four different games, um, you know, uh, last week. Uh, the first game is what I call posted and it's kind of similar to like a game show where, you know, you get a scenario and you get three journal entries. They could all be correct. They could all be wrong or a mix of the, of the, of the two and each team, you know, the team who's going has the, you know, has a certain amount of time to determine, you know, if it's all good, if they're good with it after making the changes or no changes at all. Um, and then that, you know, essentially goes into review. So it goes over to the other teams like, Hey team, you're good. Do you want to see about potentially, you know, still in this, or do you think it's, you think they're right or wrong? And so after that, then, you know, we determine, all right, you are correct or you were incorrect because of X and Y. And so it was actually pretty interesting because we had situations where they were correct situation where they weren't correct. And it was like a lot of back and forth and like, it was, it was really interesting because they were, you know, um, they were, you know, have people have different opinions and, um, it's like, well, no, this is why this is this. And it was like, oh, okay. But it was good because they were literally going back for, they really engaged with it. Um, after that we did the ledger labyrinth, which is us creating a maze essentially in the building. Uh, we use pipe and drape this year. Um, and so really it's just people navigating through it. They had to, the whole team had to navigate through the maze first, come back to, um, you know, back to me on the stage to get an answer, to get a question. Once they answer the question, the answers to those questions, let them know what they needed to go back into the maze to get. So in the maze, there were, you know, three, three different sheets of, uh, paper essentially, which is like balance. It was BS, you know, CFS and IS obviously, you know, a, a more seasoned person knows that those are financial statements. Right. And so, but most times people just kind of try to go through the maze as fast as they can. Right. Cause it's a speed thing. Um, but if you don't, if you don't really pay attention to what's in there, you know, once you get back and do the questions, you know, for example, I asked questions that alluded to the balance sheet or ask questions that alluded to this, um, you know, cashflow statement. So if you weren't paying attention, you'd be like, wait, what does this even mean? And, but then people did pay attention and they went back in, grab the right sheet, brought it back. And, you know, that was the, the way that they, you know, one, um, and then we did the balance sheet game, which is answering a, uh, several different questions, um, and you get in a random, um, a value, and then you have to place that value on a blank balance sheet and build up the best balance sheet you can obviously has to the balance and has to be, you know, in the right, normal, normal balances for each of the, uh, accounts. And, uh, the team who, you know, the person who created the best balance sheet, you know, wins. And then, uh, after that we did the CPA exam showdown, which is kind of like a, do you want to be a millionaire esque type of feel where we just asking questions at the question. But in this case, you won't know if you answered the question correctly or not. Similarly, like the CPA exam until the end. Um, and as you answer the questions, it's either gets easier or, or, or harder, um, depending on, you know, you know, your answer, but again, you won't know, you won't actually know until you might say, Oh, let's see, this feels like a harder question or this feels like an easier question, but you won't actually know until, uh, the end. So yeah. So those are the games that we play. They were really in, they were really engaged and interactive and, you know, it was, it was fun to see people, you know, play the games and be so, you know, involved with it. Cause this, these games have been in my head for a year basically. Right. And now seeing them in, in, in life, um, and people enjoying it, it was really, really cool. That's awesome. And, and like for the panel, what were some of the kind of like main, you know, topics or areas that it was focused on? Yep. So we talked about the big thing for me, I wanted to show that there are more paths that you can take in accounting other than, you know, what we usually hear in college, which is, you know, go into big four, do audit, do tax or advisory is very, you know, general. And so I wanted to make sure that we were exposing people to the different pathways that, you know, that people can take. So the very first panel of the day was a panel that we just called careers in accounting. And we had about, um, you see five, five to six people, six people, I think on the panel, including me, uh, who had all different paths that they took. Um, and it was really just going one by one in getting their experiences and what they do, you know, so we had, um, you know, a Corey, you know, who's the, uh, you know, the VP over at Kaiser Permanente has been a chair, a ICPA, you know, he's been basically, um, you know, the company man that's been in, you know, and, and stayed the test of time at companies. And then you have other people, um, Alejandra, who was, you know, wasn't in, you know, she just like, this ain't for me, I'm gonna need to start my own thing in the wind to self, you know, self-employed and, you know, use her accounting background and finance background to create a company where she's helping startups, um, and helping people exit businesses and stuff like that. And so the whole point of that was to show that getting a career in accounting, I'm sorry, getting a degree in accounting and starting your career there, you might start at a certain place, but here's all the different opportunities that, you know, and different paths that you can potentially take. And so, uh, we had that panel, uh, CalCPA did a career readiness panel to help people with, you know, interviews, um, we had an offshoring, um, conversation. We had a, um, a conversation specifically from, you know, cause I focus on entertainment. So we had a Hollywood accounting panel where we talked about, um, how accountants and, you know, and the, like where their positions are in, in Hollywood and how we can support going forward. Um, we had a wealth panel, you know, just talking about, you know, with the lawyer and the, um, and the financial planner and advisor and everybody like that, just to talk about building wealth. We had a panel about AI and blockchain and how that is redefining what we're doing in accounting. Uh, we had a conversation about tax planning as well, since that's a huge topic in a lot of what people are kind of shifting to as well. So those are the panels we, you know, we had for that day. That's cool. And, and you were able to get all that counted as, um, CPE, right? And like, what does that look like to register, to be able to like get stuff as CPE what's involved there? Yeah. So, you know, you have to go through the, you know, the, the NASBA to get sponsorship, you know, to be a sponsor, to provide, um, CPE. You can do several different methods. You can take the actual gains themselves, um, you know, because I still want to kind of get that, you know, through and get them okay with it. We didn't give actual CPE for the gains themselves, um, but it was for the panel. So, um, you know, with that being done, you know, you just need to have a, you know, somebody on the panel who's putting together the panel who has sufficient knowledge in whatever you're talking about. And so, for example, tax planning panel, we had, you know, me as a CPA who do taxes, but we also had, um, Jackie Meyer, um, who is huge in the tax planning space, um, with tax plan IQ. Um, we also had an enrolled agent, Jasmine, um, who's a colleague of mine, friend and colleague of mine, um, who, you know, can speak to it. And so you have all those individuals who are, you know, um, qualified to speak to it has to be a certain amount of time. And, you know, with us, you know, um, you know, I just also make sure to follow it up with a poll, um, just to make sure that, you know, obviously people were there, but, you know, make sure people were, people were engaged as well. When you mentioned the Hollywood accounting thing too, this is a little bit off topic from CPA con, but I'm really curious to know, like, how'd you kind of choose that niche? I guess you do like sort of like entertainers and kind of people in the crypto space. I used to have a small book of business in the crypto space, actually like sold it. Um, and I'm like, not, not involved in that anymore, but I found it interesting in terms of like the clientele and stuff. So I'm curious, like why, like why you pick those niches and like, what's really like unique about it. Well, the thing is, I mean, as I tell everybody who asks me about like what they want, what, what is the right niche or what should I do in accounting? I just really have a passion and enjoyment for entertainment. So I like TV shows. I like, you know, gaming, I like films. And so I just knew that in order for me to have a long lasting career in accounting, um, which is more of a gift and I actually like accounting too. Like I can debate some accounting, uh, you know, literature, you know, forever. I am a nerd in that sense. Um, but I also knew I needed to align that with the passions that I had, which was entertainment space. And so, uh, that was just a, uh, you know, uh, for sure necessity for me. And so after, you know, I started with Deloitte, uh, not, you know, when I first started, but you know, I was, you know, once I got to a place, I was like, all right, now I need to get over into, uh, entertainment and move out to LA. Um, that's when I made that change. So I knew I wanted to be in entertainment because of my passion. And then with crypto, I just, you know, it's interesting to me and I don't want to be left behind. I don't want to be that person that's just like, oh, we're not updating with the times type thing. And you get left behind. So, you know, that was like, let me make sure that I'm positioning myself to be an expert in this space. And it was just provided a great opportunity for people since it was such a new industry. Um, so this was a way for me to be able to, um, really get into differentiate myself and become, you know, a top of the industry with it. Yeah, there's a period of time where a lot of like the big firms like didn't want to touch that. So like I found myself like when I left Deloitte, um, so also alumni there, uh, I, I had been on like the kind of like crypto tax teams at Deloitte. And so I left and I had all this like very, very up to date knowledge, but like nobody was dealing with like the kind of like smaller people. And so, yeah, I like ended up becoming like the tax guy for a lot of like the Borde Biot club in Canada. I did that kind of on the side for a few years and it was like tremendously good side income for what it was. Um, but it's interesting operating in an area with like less certainty and, you know, where you have to actually like really use your head. And that's where for me, I like that. Like I don't care to, you know, just follow the steps like, all right. You know, for me, I like helping to build something up and knowing that I have some impact. And so if it's already structured, if it's already like, you know, you know, you just need to apply less than one to like, I don't know, like give me something more. Let me be a part of the, you know, the, the creation or the, you know, the growth and the scaling of this, you know, so that's why I enjoy it because I'm able to have that impact. That's awesome. I love that. So, yeah, like circling back on to CPA con, I'm curious to hear what do you think is like the biggest thing that you will change or like want to adapt for 2025? I really want to, again, just to rehash that this was definitely a proof of concept that, you know, and it was to make sure to use the most of our time. I think in the next year we want to make sure that it is is multi-day, you know, so you know, utilizing more than just the one day that we had, you know, because 12 hours is, you know, quite a bit. And I was literally the host, the game master, the moderator. And so it was quite a bit, you know, I was, you know, I talk a lot, but like that was a lot. And so, you know, having it multi-days is, you know, one thing that's a goal. I mean, that was the initial goal, but again, we had to make some changes. So, you know, definitely multi-day. Another big one is that would love to get more support and buy-in from firms because with the Accounting Olympics themselves, like the goal is to get firms to, you know, submit teams. So like not too different from when you look at, think about the Olympics and you got different countries who are submitting their, you know, their teams to compete in the different games. You know, the goal here is to get firms to submit their teams for the different games. And, you know, the goal is to now create the top, you know, accounting or top of firms list more than just from people who are generating the most money, but now also, you know, putting it to an actual test of wits and actual skill and knowledge and like we can create a new list of people. And this might give the smaller firms a chance to be, you know, in the top now because it's not about how much money you generate. And this is just about, you know, how well you know your craft and how well you can, you know, perform in a, you know, in a environment, you know, like this. And with this as well, you know, we'll have obviously students partaking in it. And I think that this will be a great way for, you know, people who are recruiting to be able to see the talent as they come up and see them in these particular situations. The goal is to provide like you know reports on people how they you know how well they did and everything and so that's you Know the goal is to be able to funnel that into you know the firms and so then they'll be like okay You know this person did very very good And you know they you know hit off on these markers this day would definitely be a fit for us You know and you know they can see that you know firsthand And I think starting at that level and that's how you meet your talent And you're looking for you recruiting and you keep that trend throughout I think that helps with obviously the recruiting but also the retention because you you met them having fun And you know you just continue that that mindset You continue that you know that culture throughout that would you know in that camaraderie, right? Like a lot of people's sports teams are like dedicated. You know so We'd love to see that type of level of dedication With our with firms and and their in their employees And so this is a way in my opinion where you know we can really foster Some of that like hard you know earned dedication By you know having the firms interact so that's one of the biggest things For sure is to getting more of that in and then I think you know obviously doing the panels is what it's gonna happen But I think that's the biggest thing if I had to say anything Nice, and then what's your pitch for like the person who's already got a job like who's a CPA like why do they need to? Be going to conferences and stuff I definitely have my own ideas about that, but I'm curious to hear what kind of what you think I think that and this is more than just beyond CPA con right just any conference as a whole. I think that we I Love working from home. I love you know controlling my schedule and everything, but I will definitely be You know one of the first people to say that having a connection with other people is huge building your network is is huge and just going to live events and meeting people in person and building a a group of You know fellow accountants and financial professionals that you know you can jive with and like you can vibe with like that is you know I think very under Undervalued and underscored in the industry and so that's why I think conferences in general are Important to you know to really do that now You know we went up it with CPA con by actually making it fun Because I've had a lot of you know people who talk who tell me that they just go to conferences They don't really care about the actual conference They just come to meet their people and they go off to the side and everything like that But now if we create something where you don't have to just do that you can actually engage In what we're doing and still have fun and still connect and everything like that is the goal you can compete in in and and have again have a sense of honor and a sense of You know pride at the end of the day like one of the conversations. We've had During the you know during CPA con was that the CPA license while it was hard You know and hard hard earned is usually looked at as a badge of trauma You know it's like a bonding thing of trauma when it should be a badge of honor You know it should be a sense of like you know I did I took a CPA I am a CPA. I like I pass this test that most people don't pass I'm now in the ranking elites of you know financial professionals, but it's not really not really looked at it like that You know it's just like oh you did it now. You know Like you're about to you know It's like you people we share more of our trauma with each other instead of the fact that you know we just we We cut from another cloth like maybe that when you pass that exam that good Oh, I passed it and now I got my license and everything like it lasts for a very short amount of time And then you know it just kind of wanes away, and I think that You know we need to do a better job in general of making it more How about I say impactful and invaluable at the end of the day to us and not just to our clients and I think again conferences That's including these competitions and these funds are going to be in the fun that we have that we're having and the competitiveness and the And again the pride. I think it's going to be the thing Yeah, that's a that's a thought that we share. I definitely Also, think that there's a lot of yeah, it's like trauma bonding talking about the negatives and whatnot but it's like we need a little bit more pride and in the profession and stuff and more like wearing it a bit more like a badge of honor and The other point that I kind of find about like these conferences and stuff and my experience at the big four for example at Deloitte Like they got incredible resources and stuff like that But like what ends up happening is you end up kind of like siloed And you really don't get exposed to like what else is out there in the world what else is out there in the industry like fresh Ideas what's actually going on in the industry at large it really just becomes like Deloitte Deloitte Deloitte or whatever firm You're at and I think that extends way beyond the big four. Like I feel like that's like probably a top 100 firm thing Where like they're so expansive and and they have all these internal resources, which again super valuable great But like you you know the burdens on you to go and expose yourself to what's going on in the actual like real world and in the industry and If you're not going to any of these things, you're just not gonna have that diversity of ideas So I think and to your point is there yeah, and to your point the the firms right now It feels like they don't care It's like as long as you're getting your work done that we don't really care and then you know I've talked about this about CPE as well as it's like, you know as a whole the firms don't necessarily You know push the importance of CPE. It's just more of a It got to get done, you know, so do it but do it on your own time. Don't do it on our time And so I think that we just need to have a change of the CPE mindset as well so that You know, we are constantly looking to continue to develop, you know, we're Going to these places where we're you know networking and and you know again Like you said being exposed and and everything and I think again, you know that firm I Would say loyalty Would shine even further through if you put that up against other people, right? You like it, you know if we were going to you know, I was you know back in college, right? You know, we we were put into dorms You know I went to Morehouse College and we were you had different dorms and we would our dorms had like step teams and stuff like that So not an actual, you know fraternity or nothing like that, but we would you know rep our actual dorm, you know It's just literally just where we you know stayed, you know, that was it, but we would rep it You know, we would go to the different events and like yeah, we in here, you know and just having that sort of loyalty and that sort of You know like you know alignment with where you work and where you Spend most of your time. I think that's important I think that is a huge thing that we really need to To push because more times than not we just look at work as being someplace that you get drained someplace where you know you're just giving up your life and You know, you just need it because you need to make money and you know, it's I think that we really need to make that change Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time Kendall I really I really support what it is you do what you stand for with with what you're trying to bring forward here in the industry, so I'll definitely stay tuned on what you're up to. I recommend people give you a follow check out what you're up to as well And yeah, thanks a ton for doing this. No, thank you, man. Appreciate you