Burnout Busting with Lynnette Oss Connell

Hello, and welcome to the Big 4 Transparency podcast. I'm joined today by Lynette Oskonal, your burnout bestie and the founder of Reinspired Leadership Consulting. She's also the former co-owner of ClickPNW, a CAS and advisory firm. Welcome to the pod, Lynette. Thanks, Tom. I'm thrilled to be here. Yeah. Yeah. My pleasure. So we met a little while back in Montreal at a bit of an accounting meetup. And yeah, I got to hear kind of all about your story and really was was eager to kind of share that with the audience as well as what you're working on now, because I think, you know, by the time this airs, it's going to be extremely, extremely timely for people who are in busy season. So we're going to talk a lot about, you know, burnout prevention, how to recover from burnout, as well as, I guess, your kind of journey. So maybe to kick us off, can you talk about what you're up to these days with Reinspired? Yeah, for sure. Thanks for asking. Coming up at the end of this busy season, I'm working on creating a four-week mini course for accountants coming out of busy season to reassess what went well, where their stress levels are at and how to make a game plan for recovery over the summer, as well as making a prevention plan running into the fall and into even next spring's busy season. So taking a look and helping accountants take a pause button and really looking at what their needs are, I think sometimes, well, I know sometimes when we don't have intentionality around preventing burnout, our recovery efforts have to be more drastic. We're more in the hole, and that can take a toll not just on us, but on our relationships with our families, and it has a ripple effect. So I really want to help empower accountants to be more literate about burnout, as well as more introspective about their own stress coping and empower them. So that's what I'm looking forward to this spring. Yeah, I mean, that's a very, very important mission, right? I think a lot of people in the industry suffer from this. Some are aware of it, and some are probably suffering from this and don't really know what it is. I think when I was working in public accounting, I was more in the second camp where I think I was probably suffering from a lot of burnout and issues with that. But I don't think I fully put two and two together. And so for me, it was just like, oh, I think I need to change jobs or do some drastic changes and things like that. And I wasn't necessarily fully conscious of the kind of burnout that I think I was probably dealing with. And so what's like your story that has made you kind of so passionate about this? Because obviously that comes from somewhere. Nobody is necessarily in high school going like, I'm going to be a burnout specialist. And so what? In retrospect, to answer your question, I think that I spent a lot of my life in burnout and didn't even know it. And I think that getting into professional life only magnified maybe some poor coping habits I always had. I think that a lot of accounts will identify with like the high achieving type of burnout, which is we, for a myriad reasons, we drive ourselves really hard and we get really passionate about what we're doing. And we think I could possibly be burnt out because I really love what I'm doing. Or you think that once I just reach the next level of achievement, I will have the space or capacity to reassess something more sustainable. I know that's so that's a large part of my story. I was running hard from the time I was young, just an academically minded kiddo, and then went into accounting. It's a profession that will reward hard work on a lot of levels, meaning if you do hard work, they will give you more of it, which can become a vicious cycle. When I had kids, I started working for myself. I started a mini CAS practice, bookkeeping, and doing advisory. I juggled then a divorce, a remarriage. My husband now is also a CPA. He and I started another firm. So then we were parenting a blended family of five kids in addition to the firm and all the while holding myself to these very high standards, wanting to serve my clients well, wanting to parent well, wanting to do everything my best and thought to myself, eventually, I'll I'll get some slack. Eventually I'll get to the point where all this hard work will pay off and I'll get to breathe. And you know, that point never ever, ever, ever came until 2022 was really a pivotal year where I'd gone through several burnout crashes, which is what I was talking about in the recovery is some busy seasons you say, you know, that was just a bad one. Or I'm just having a hard time recovering. And then you realize that it starts to get worse and worse and worse. It compounds the lack of self care. And I got to a point where I really had to stop asking myself, how can I keep going? Because that's the question I'd ask myself all the time. How can I engineer a schedule or technology or any of these other coping skills to make my life more manageable? And then I ended up overengineering a life of my own overfunctioning. I had it so dialed in. I had child care help. I had meal plan help. I had all these things to supplementally help me sustain this life that still became unsustainable. So instead of asking, how can I keep this rolling? I had to ask the question, what happens if I stop? What happens if I stop this? And I would just think for a second and get really, really curious. And it was an interaction with one of my clients that really started to shift my perspective. Now, I think a lot of people who love me had been saying for a long time that this was unsustainable. Family members, but we don't listen to them as much, right? Because it's easy to be like, you just don't get it like, right, you don't understand. And so a client told me one day, I, it was pretty transparent that I was struggling and he'd been a client for a very long time. So we were comfortable with one another. And he said, I can tell you're really struggling. So I said, you know, I'm just dealing with some burnout and I threw it out like a casual term, right? Oh, it's, it's just burnout. And he let me know, I'm not a client of yours because of the accounting services you provide. It was, I can go somewhere else for that. I am a client of yours because of the level of connection and authenticity and the fact that you see things in my business that nobody else sees. I'm here for the relationship, not for necessarily for the accounting. And I took that in the best possible way that what the value I was giving to my client wasn't what I thought it was. So I had to ask, okay, if he's valuing my insight and my question asking, my coaching, and that that's also giving me life, I would have reflected and I did reflect in my curiosity. What is my favorite part about every client interaction? It's the Zoom calls. Now not everybody's like that, but for me, that was a pivotal shift to say, okay, where can I find more fulfillment? That was my aha moment is that it wasn't about schedules. It wasn't about childcare. It wasn't about niche work. It wasn't about automation. I needed to pivot on my why, my purpose. And that's a really individual shift. I think everybody's different and examining that and helping people dig deep into that is what I hope to do is work through really systematically and passionately helping people either evolve in the careers that they're in, or to your point, when you were burnt out, you're like, I kind of need to just jump ship. Where's the next opportunity? I think a lot of people are tempted to do that when they're burnt out. Burnout doesn't have to be the end of the road or the end of your career. If we have enough mental space to pause and assess what we need and who we are, we might decide to evolve within the existing career, but we might decide to shift. But that level of self-examination will help us move into that next job, more self-aware, more empowered with better boundaries and all the stuff that goes along with that. So that's really how my personal story connects with my mission. I want other people to have these moments of aha empowerment through getting curious and be able to find a flexible mindset that they can evolve in the best possible way to find what they need and what they can give, what they need from their job and what they can give through their job to one another. Nice. I mean, that's amazing that a client kind of helped you through that, like that really put some things in perspective and that's, you know, it's good that it probably happened there before it happened, you know, by some crisis in your personal life or whatever that might be, which I feel like often that is where kind of breaking points happen, right? And yeah, so we're... Wow, forgive me, wrong. There are plenty of careful nights leading up to that. Fair. Very fair. Yeah. Where you mentioned that, you know, the way the industry is, they really celebrate the hard work. I think there are a lot of like kind of toxic practices, right? Like I know for me, I found that like the managing partner where I was like was really good about caring about people, like genuine care. And I had, you know, great coaches and stuff where I worked, but there were still these things that were like ingrained in the accounting space where it was like, you know, during busy season, they share out a sheet of everyone's billable hours. And there's this like silent shaming of anyone who was kind of on the lower end. And there's these comments, right? Even if you had something going on and you're leaving on Thursday at 8.30, someone's like, oh, wow, must be nice. And I think that this like focus on inputs in the accounting space can really lead to that versus focusing on outputs, right? Like so for me now where I work for myself, it really matters what I get done. And so before it was like, you need to be in office, you need to be doing these numbers of billable hours and things, whereas right now I'm like, you know, sometimes I'll sit around all morning and not get much done. And then I kind of recognize like, oh, I need to go to the gym, oh, I need to do this or whatever for myself to then kind of increase my output rather than just being very inputs driven. So for me, anyways, that was a big issue, right? For real, I was just having a conversation with somebody just the other week along the same lines who is in more of a leadership position at a firm expressing we don't want to be this is a bit of a smaller firm, not any of the large ones, but we don't really want to be doing that billable hours comparison. We see where it falls apart, where it's not beneficial, but at the same time struggling to say, okay, if we're going to replace that, what's a viable alternative? And it's a really perplexing question because it ends up becoming then pretty subjective. But at the same time, it's such a necessary shift that needs to happen. And I think where we can really start is just by having leaders in firms willing to have those conversations to challenge it and say, okay, this may be effective on some levels. Is there anything else quantifiable for our firm? And maybe we need some more thought leadership on that in the industry. Yeah. Yeah. And there's some people starting to kind of take a lead on that and, you know, there are some very interesting developments happening on kind of progressive firms that are talking about these things. And I think that that's like a really positive shift in the industry, but there's still, you know, when it's happening in a lot of the kind of the smaller firms and stuff, there's still this huge portion of the population who's not benefiting from that or being touched by that yet, unfortunately. But you know, I think I think there are a lot of people who are looking to drive that positive change. I think it's just really, really hard to do. So if we shift gears here towards kind of the practical, you know, the industry is what it is right now. Like, you know, if you're kind of someone working at one of these firms, what are some of the like very practical things that like you could think to be doing now to kind of help prevent or at least soften the burnout that might be happening from busy season? Sure. I'm going to say a couple caveats before I give you this list. Because Dom, you asked me ahead of time to prepare this list, so I'm going to be reading some of these off to make sure I don't forget any of them. Perfect. It's really hard for me to narrow this down because one of the things I'm really passionate about is depending on where the source of your burnout is coming from, you may need a different recommendation than someone else. And so my caveat is your situation may not benefit from one of these and only you know what's going to work for you and what won't. And so take these with a grain of salt and one of these may really blow your mind. There are a couple of things that are just, I think, out there in the media that you've already heard, which is the exercise is probably the best for an outbuster. This is true. There are two things that need to change when you're in a stressful burnout situation. One is that the actual stressful situation needs to be resolved. And the second thing that needs to change is that the stress response in your body needs to be resolved. So you think evolutionarily we would run from lions, tigers, and bears. Oh my. In our bodies, we need to resolve the runaway or the kill the tiger or something like that. And so exercise uses those big muscles in your body and helps your stress levels go down. So do not underestimate the big difference that exercise will make, including micro exercise, if that's all you can shake. So taking breaks to get outside, depending on what kind of office building you're in or where you live, honestly, multiple walks around the block during the day and blocking that out between tasks is really helpful. And that couples on the next recommendation, which is on transitions. When you move from one task to another, have a ritual or a routine. Routines, rituals, and habits help your brain know it's safe and predictable. One of the things that can happen when you're really burnt out is get brain fog. I know we've all experienced it. I don't know what I'm going to do next. And so building those habits and rituals into your day micro just for yourself can help maintain normalcy as well as reduce decision fatigue. When your stress levels are really high, you're not, every time you have to shift a task or make a new decision, it taxes your brain and you want to really reserve your brain power for, for your work. I mean, this is the season we live for more or less all year long as accountants. And so you want to be doing your best work. So don't waste your time doing stuff you shouldn't be doing, which is where automation becomes handy. Because if we can automate certain tasks, it'll keep your brain free to do the things only you can do. The things the computer can't do. I went through a whole bunch of recommendations that are kind of all mushed together because they're related. Some other stuff. All right, we're going to move into some of my favorite ones that I think make a huge difference. One is variety. When you switch it up and don't overwork one area of your brain, you keep yourself fresh and you keep some dopamine levels hitting. My next one on the dopamine is little victories is what I call it, but they're little wins or what's called the progress principle. Forgive me, I don't remember offhand what the doctor is saying who came up with this principle, but the idea is that those little wins add up in your brain to motivate you for the bigger wins. So don't forget to list and check the darn things off the list. The science behind that is significant. The accomplishment spikes your dopamine and helps you feel like you're really accomplishing something. On the same note, give yourself some rewards. Intentionally set a reward. When I get to the end of this task for this day, I'm going to have a coffee break with Melanie or I'm going to have dinner with Jack or I'm going on Saturday on a hike with my parents. So giving yourself that, again, it's a little thing, but it keeps you in a positive mindset. It's not all doom and gloom. There's a pot of gold at the end of your rainbow. Yeah, I saw a big difference between people who would just kind of shut down their lives for busy season and people who would just be like, yeah, like my hours are going to be super limited in terms of what I can do. And so I'm going to like use that free time to its fullest potential. And I thought that that was really interesting and it can be really hard to balance. Because if you just feel like you're running on empty, it's hard to get yourself to go do some of these things. But yeah, I'm a firm believer in sometimes you need to rest, but sometimes you actually need to like force yourself to like go do something. And this is where your loved ones can come in really handy. If you employ your spouse or your housemate or if you don't live with anyone, a parent or your best friend to make items on your calendar for you, maybe not make them, but to invite you. That is relying on other people in the best possible way is one of my favorite burnout principles. I like to believe that stress or you flip from being overstressed to being burnt out when your personal resourcing expires. So you can be stressed and not be burnt out. But we flip into burnout when my ability to self-care and cope and manage my schedule starts to break down. And because my self-resourcing is broken down, I really need external people in my life to lend their energy. And there's a number of ways they can do that. The one I just said is having them invite you to things, even though you're in busy season, encouraging them to include you, then you don't have to use the mental energy to plan it, but you can show up and feel community. You can feel their care, their encouragement, as well as just laugh. Forget it's busy season for a couple hours on Saturday dinner. That's so valuable. The other way we can really, really use other people's energy is by using a technique called body doubling. This is borrowed from ADHD life hacks on social media. And I was really inspired when I saw this technique. It's where when you're struggling to do something, instead of forcing yourself to do it and overriding your nervous system, employ a friend, either in person or virtually, to do the task with you. To say, hey Dom, I have some tasks I'm really struggling with. Can we do a two-hour Zoom tomorrow and just parallel work? So we would sit on Zoom together and I would do my shit, you do my stuff, and you can do your stuff, and maybe we'll chit chat, but really what's happening is that I know you're tackling your hard stuff, I'm tackling my hard stuff. We can encourage one another and that synergy really helps us get more done. Another alternative to that is having somebody actually sit with you to do it. So when my, this is just a really personal story, when my burnout was really, really bad, there became certain accounting tasks that for some odd reason were like pulling teeth for me. Logging onto certain government websites, entering my client information for some odd reason, this was actually a big red flag to me that my burnout was really bad, is that I would get anxious about certain tasks that should not be causing me anxiety, that I've done a zillion times. And so I would ask my husband, because he and I co-owned our business, you know, I need to do a whole bunch of this task, I saved them all. So I grouped all the hard tasks together, I had him body double with me, and we actually logged on together and did them. And that was such a gift. So if you're really, really struggling, and this is maybe not even at work, but in a home life too, if you're feeling that burnout, a great way your loved ones can help you is to sit with you. And I would just encourage anyone, please really stretch yourself to ask for help. We don't ask for help enough. And I know they have these, there's these websites now, I haven't used them, so I don't know the name of them, but I've heard of it where you can kind of just go and you'll get matched with someone, or like a group of 10 people, and it's like, this is like a work session. That is so cool. Yeah, and for people who maybe are in a remote environment, that could be a good option. Because for me, I think, and we spoke about this previously, but I really, really struggled actually when COVID happened and it became remote work, right? Because for me, sitting next to all these people who are going through the same thing really, really was helpful. And then when I was just kind of like alone in a room, and then also had all these back of mind anxieties, because we thought it was potentially the end of the world, right? Like that like really took a lot out of me versus like, yeah, sitting with a group of people who are like, okay, we're all going through this was actually super helpful. So I can kind of really vouch for that one. I actually think that, so I was an auditor when I was in public accounting, and I really thrived on the conference table at the client's office environment. And when we lost that, or when I lost that, when I left public accounting, and I found myself reminiscing about how that synergy in that work environment, as much as we were working long hours, I actually think that that prevented some burnout. Like because we were in it together, there was a team mentality. I wonder if working remotely, maybe that has brought this into more stark relief to really highlight that working alone is not necessarily in the best interest of a lot of us. And this is where like, I want to point out, and again, we spoke about this at length previously, but like the uniquenesses between people, right? So like my fiance, like, I really feel like when she's wiped out, she's like, I just need to do nothing. Versus for me, like I'm a variety person, right? So maybe in assessing oneself, and also maybe kind of advising other people, like understanding the differences. And I'm always telling her like, oh, you know, you probably just like, need to change your environment or like, get out of this cycle that you're in and go do this. And she always gets really frustrated at me. But like, I was the person like, I worked at a bar during tax season, like Friday nights, like Saturday nights and stuff. Yeah, like, DJing events. And like, I was kind of confronted about that. And I was like, no, like, I kind of need this. And it was actually really helpful to me. Or like, if in the evening, I had some like physical labor type thing I had to get done, right? It was like, this is like different enough that it's okay. And that's where like, for me, like the entrepreneurship has been really, really, really beneficial is because the variety of tasks are there. And in every single job, I think my biggest frustration and thing that kind of like led to me feeling burnt out was like the constraints on my role. Because when I was like, so sick of doing something, I was like, I'm gonna go do this next thing. I was always like, I have to chase the dopamine of the job that's at the top of my head. And when I'm doing that, like I could work way, way longer versus like, if I was kind of constrained within a set task, like I had a really hard time, which is why like, yeah, like busy season filling out personal tax returns and stuff like that, like, would always turn into a fight for me because I was like, no, like put me on the like reorg or like tax restructuring team and this and that. And that was always like a difficult balance. So for like, for some people, that might be the answer as well, right? Well, and absolutely. What you just highlighted was so key, really into why knowing myself can be really powerful, especially if then you're in an organization where they value helping people shine and really be able to demonstrate their skills in ways that resonate for them personally and intersect with the needs of the organization. Finding your why, I mean, when I look back at my burnout journey, one thing that accelerated my burnout was losing my why. I, for the longest time I was in accounting because it paid my bills. I was decently good at it. Like it was a very practical needs fulfillment for me. And then actually once we got to a place where I didn't need it to fulfill that role for me in the same way, I was so busy with the work, you know, like with success and I didn't need to do so much. I was already wound up in doing so. much, I didn't take the time to recalibrate my purpose. And so it was like, why am I still doing this? I don't need to be doing this level of work. But also, I couldn't just hop off the train and think. So one of the things I hope to provide to people is giving them enough space to do some basic self-reflection, to even if they stay in the same position, to have a why or a purpose posted in their, at their desk or on the desktop of their computer so they can be reminded of why they do what they do. Most accountants I know are super, super dedicated, passionate people. And it, it doesn't always come out for most of us, like the touchy-feely bit, but most of us are pretty passionate about what we do. Also go back to what you said about your, your fiance and you, you being high variety and her being low energy. For the people who are low energy, I am totally in that boat. I am a let's sit and do nothing. And it was really transformative for me this last year. I thought I was already pretty fairly recovered from my burnout and I had a surgery and I couldn't, it was abdominal surgery and I couldn't sit up. I couldn't move without help. And so I just sat and watched. I am not the kind of person to sit and watch hours of TV on end. And I did, I binge watched a whole bunch of shows. And at the end of three weeks of recovery, I felt so energized. And it wasn't from the TV watching. It was from the actually letting myself not be over-functioning. To not feel like I constantly had to be achieving even a task or producing. I think that's really what it is, is the productive bug gets into us and I've got to produce, I've got to produce. Even for those of us who are naturally sit still and readable people. So I would encourage people to experiment with different forms of rest. I know it's really hard during busy season, but if you are a quiet person, like I'm a quiet person. So during busy season, I wouldn't let myself rest. And it actually took being pretty creative about figuring out how I could hack my own mind into letting myself relax. Another tip I have for people like that is to try to engage all five of your senses. So if you're stuck doing a job, I used to have on my lamp over there, which used to be over here, I had an index card on it. I had the five senses and I had like a menu for myself of things to do. So I had some, I bought some essential oils and a candle. I would buy fresh flowers for my visual. I would put them here in the side so that when I'm on zooms, I could see them. And I would just tap into all that you'll notice. You have fidgets. I've got several here. But enabling yourself to exist as a five sensed person, even though you're in this environment constantly can help a quieter disposition person feel fully human, even though you're doing repetitive tasks all day long. So especially if you work from home, that's a great way to stay grounded. Interesting. Well, yeah, I'm sure this is coming at a great time for a lot of people listening. And so there's a whole variety of things for you to try. And again, like you might identify more with kind of one type of person and maybe that'll be sort of your your cue to maybe try, you know, a given path of things to to prevent the burnout and then, you know, check in with yourself. Like, is this helping? Do I feel like I'm going back in kind of, you know, at, you know, 80 or more percent? We can't ask for 100 all the time. Do I feel like I'm going in kind of rested? Right. Versus not. And then maybe it's time to try more things. And then like for people who, you know, after it's, you know, busy season's over and now I just feel like, you know, an empty corpse and like, I don't know what I'm doing. Um, you know, I know some people it was travel right after like booking time off, going traveling and things like that. But like, even if you are kind of at home and you're just like, all right, I'm trying to get back into like a real life routine and things like that. Are there any kind of like really actionable like first stops for people there? So you're. Yes. Yes. You're saying people come in straight out straight off busy season. Yeah. Like what, like what, what's your recommendation for like, just self-care, make sure, like, make sure you're okay. You might think you're okay, but like, just like, what are some, some things to like set up in your routine? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you named it. It's a routine is, um, I would say that if, you know, there are things that have worked for you in the past, right. And true. Take any ounce you have left of self-discipline and try to go back to those things that you found to be useful in the past. Returning back to it, your brain will kick back into gear. Um, so that's one. The second one I already did say is exercises been proven to be the best stress buster. So do that. Um, we're going back to routines. Um, don't get lazy on your sleep. I mean, honestly, it's, it's stuff you already know that have probably gotten too busy to be aware of. So, um, intentionality can make a big difference. So sitting down and writing down a plan for yourself, um, blocking out your calendar differently. Now that you have, speaking of after busy season, right now that you have time on your calendar to spare, be intentional about those family relationships and friends relationships. Um, it's all the same stuff as during busy season, except that now you've got the freedom to implement them in a restorative kind of bigger way. Um, yeah, burnout recovery is, is different too, because oftentimes if you are on the burnout trajectory to where you've gotten into some depression or anxiety, if that's kind of crept in because your nervous system is fried, um, it may also be checking in with your doctor. If you see a counselor, um, going to see those people to make sure that you're as healthy physically as you can be, don't wait until it gets really bad before you find help. I just see so many people have normalized it, the burnout that they say, oh, it'll, it'll be fine, but really you deserve to be cared for. So if you need a doctor to recommend some supplements for your blood work, go, go get that done. Now that busy season is over. Yeah. And I think when you're in it, like, again, it can be hard to like associate the two. So like around when I had done all my CPA exams, like I was trying to do the, the challenge route. So I've squeezed everything all into one. So I was like overlapping CPA exams with my final exams of my last semester. And then like had to do it all basically in one go in like seven or eight months. And in that period kind of unrelated, I was like really anxious anytime I'm like alone or like, I'm like really having a hard time, like functioning fully and like not much really sets me off in a big way. And like, I think at the time, again, when I was in it, I was like, oh, this is like a weird like stage of life and all that. But I mean, again, looking back, you're like, yeah, obviously. Right. But I think again, when you're in it, it can be super hard to recognize. And so like talking to people who sort of like know what's up that can be really helpful for sure. Absolutely. And just to plug, if anybody wants help going through all this stuff, that's what we'll be doing on my burnout bounce back for weeks of some reflection. That's going to be in May. So in May. Okay. Now people can go to my website and sign up to get more info. And then as I roll, I don't know exactly when this is going to air. So we'll see how much I've got up there. Yeah. Early March. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to make sure this one kind of came out at the start of busy season, just so again, people can have those tips. And, you know, a lot of these you've probably heard, but like getting a refresher, having like a resource and then just understanding like, you know, some of these I've never heard of either. Right. But understanding that you're not alone and that like pretty much everyone's going to go through this at some point, I think is super important. And so, yeah, that was my next question was when is your first cohort kicking off? So in May, I'm going to be sure to link all of this. And again, it's really cool having it in the context of public accounting where you've been through everything in the context of accounting as well. Right. Whereas like I think sometimes when we have these conversations with other people, it's like you just don't get it. Right. So, yeah, for anyone who's who's struggled with that in the past or has a really hard go over these coming months, I would highly recommend at least checking it out, seeing if it might be kind of the right thing for you. And yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing, Lynette. You're so welcome. It's been so much fun to talk to you.