Being the Fun CPA with Yuri Kapilovich

Hello, and welcome to the Big Four Transparency podcast. I'm joined today by Yuri Kapilovich, the fund CPA and the managing partner of Kapilovich and Associates. Welcome to the podcast, Yuri. Hey, Dominic. What's going on, man? Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate that. Yeah, my pleasure. I didn't announce my last name right, so that's, you get extra points for that. Yeah. I mean, full transparency. I had a practice run with you beforehand. I hate butchering people's last names. I've been called Picasso, Picoscopo. People just get overwhelmed by too many vowels, so. It's true. I can relate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure you can. So to kick things off here, the fund CPA, I'm very kind of curious to chat to you about that. What kind of brought that about, what that's all about, and kind of what you hope to accomplish with that. Sure. No, it's great. You know, it's funny. I just had the very similar conversation on another podcast I recorded last week. And much like a lot of my other stuff and a lot of the other things that I do, it's all by coincidence. Like, there is no grand plan here. You know what I mean? There is no agenda. There is no nothing. The fund CPA, interestingly enough, came from just posting on social media for two and a half years, randomly one day, like probably about a year and a half ago, I just did hashtag the fund CPA. And I was like, interesting. I don't know where it came from. I really, it just kind of came to my mind. I think I was just doing something fun. And I wrote, oh, you know what? Now that I think about it, I think it was like for making a drink. I made a drink or something. I took a picture of it, shared that and wrote the fund CPA. And then I was like, I kind of like that. Okay, I'm going to use it again and then again. And then I used it and then it kept clicking. And then I realized, again, like I said, there is no intention in anything, but I realized that it had something to it because people just couldn't process it. And about a year and a half ago, I went to a basically it was like a show for aircraft and like this high end luxury toys for people that like private helicopters, private jets, and all this kind of stuff, aviation based show in an airport hangar. And I got a little booth for myself. And I made and I have my banner, the fund CPA banner. And this is where I knew that it had something to it the first time because nobody understood. They couldn't even say the hashtag. They were like the funk pop, it was the point where they could not figure out even how to like break down that hashtag. And that's how you know, because fun and CPA just don't go together. And I was like, I'm on to something, right? Because that's kind of how rare it is. And it's currently trademark pending, which is pretty cool too. Oh, right on. That's cool. I should actually get on that one day, honestly, as well. With the trademark thing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. I think like branding, I had a lot of conversations with Roman about this, but I think branding the world of CPAs and accounting professionals is such a good way to differentiate yourself because so many places don't even try, right? A hundred percent. It's funny. You know, you say that, don't even try. Like one of my first experiences, I think even before, well, no, the fund CPA was already a thing then, but it was my website. But before the fund CPA came about, like as a brand, I was like, I want to make a website, but the last thing I want ever, and it just made me gag, is like the stereotypical accounting website that has like the Empire State Building and some random people. And it says services, taxes, bookkeeping, like, dude, everybody knows what you do. I mean, it's like the services thing, outside of maybe like some specialty stuff, but for the most part, everybody knows what an accountant does. And I'm like, I can't even like, so I started making the website by myself on Wix. You know, like just figuring I'll play around with it, like, you know, I will try it. And then it was like just templates and I obviously don't know what I'm doing. So and the only templates they had is exactly what I just described that I didn't want. And then I just stopped and I just hired someone and they did a great job with my website, which is something that every time I send it around or people go to it, it's like, well, like that's not what I was expecting to see. Yeah. Being proud of your website is is so underrated, honestly, like totally is. Yeah, I did a big redesign like a year ago and it's still not there yet because I'm doing all this stuff myself and I I'm not like a web builder and I'm not whatever. But soon I'm going to hire like a proper redesign of it. But even just kind of freshening it up a little bit. And I was like, oh, this this feels really good. Right. Like in my case, like there's 20 some thousand people going there a month. And I'm like, hey, like this doesn't have to look like crap. Like, you know, yeah, especially when you have that kind of traffic. I mean, not again. Look, at the end of the day, your website does what it needs to do. Yeah. Much like. But mine, I don't even. Honestly, I I go out and my wife first went on it, like when I first created it. And she was like, what are you selling here? Like what? Like, you know, what is it per se? But it's really not I'm not selling anything. And that's my biggest thing that I've. Like come to learn again, nothing is that I do is is intentional in any way. It just kind of happens. And so as I go along, like I don't want to sell you anything. I don't want to be over there telling you I'm the best I like and like you should see that. As part of my posting, as part of the content that I create, as part of this, the movement that I'm doing, that I know what I'm doing, I don't need to sell you anything like I'm not going to get on a call with you and explain to you why my fee is what it is. I'm going to tell you what my fee is. And if you're not interested, then that's fine. You know, obviously, you could ask, like, you know, what what's included and so on and so forth. That's totally fair. But in the grand scheme of things, I'm not going to sit there and explain myself like, you know, that somebody else might and that's fine. But overall, like, that's that's kind of the high level of it. Like, okay, you go on that website, you're like, whoa, like, that's a brand website. Yeah. And then from there, I'll get inquiries of, hey, can we talk about, you know, accounting? Hey, can we talk about podcast stuff or whatever it is? But that's really it's really all just to have the presence that that's really about kind of it for me on a website front. Yeah, I think that's such a like good sign about, you know, being an accountant in the accounting industry where it's like, you don't have to make the hard sale because like, people need our services big time. And so you can just kind of be around and make yourself known a little bit, but you don't need to do that hard selling, which is super nice. And quite frankly, at least for me, 85, maybe even probably even 90% of my business is word of mouth anyway, right, which most accounts are, once you're good, and you're working with enough, you know, you have enough people, people refer people. And then that's why I'm really huge on when I when I post when I do all this stuff, and I talk about the industry, like, don't undersell yourself, like make the fees higher, make the fees higher, because if you bring on a client at $1,000 minimum, minimum for your basic 1040, let's say, right, then they're going to be happy with your services. And the next person they say to their friend, Hey, man, dude, you got to use this guy, right? You know, this guy's incredible. Oh, what do you pay $1,000? Well, that's crazy. But like, is it worth it? Yeah, it's worth it. He's really good. When they call you, and you get on the phone with these people. There's no like, Oh, my God, what is this fee? It's really just like, let's talk about just generally, which is what I like to do is just have like, a human being conversation, right? And that's it. And then when they you know, when when you have that conversation, you get to know each other, whatever, like, hey, my fee is 1000. Like, I know, I know what your fee is, like, you know, you that's the person has told me. So that's it. And unless there's more complexity to it, then it's higher. But to answer your question, and go back on like a little bit on where I where to fund CPA is going. I probably you could probably guess my answer is it's I don't know. You know, like, domination, just you're just going global. All I at the moment where I think there's a big need, you know, and with the specifically the fund CPA is actually in the public accounting profession, not not outside of it and selling the clients and that stuff. The accounting profession needs the fun needs something different to hit it upside the head. Yeah, to break it out of its mold of boredom. And the same old thing that has not been working for at least the last five years, at least, if not more. And to reach and try to reach the kind of younger partner, upper level senior manager, to say, hey, when you, you know, once these old school people retire, it's going to be your ship to, you know, to captain, so to speak. And making those little, you know, a lot of people talk about that, like those little like degree turns towards, you know, fixing it will help. But yeah, boy, it's a long journey. You know, it almost seems helpless, as you stand here, because it's rough out there, man. It really is. And it's all generated by the old school mentality that a lot of these partners have, unfortunately. Yeah, it's tricky, too, because I think that people who are very like proactive and kind of entrepreneurial about this, they don't have the patience necessarily to try and steer that huge ship in a certain direction. So they just leave their own firms, right? Like, which is also fine. Like there's now there's this huge generation of kind of next, next, you know, next gen accounting firms, maybe we can call them that, like I would have loved to work for at the time. And they seem like tremendous places. But I think a lot of the change is happening there instead of being done at like the big, big ships. And I'll give some people their flowers. Like I've had people on here like Mike Maximilien last episode I did. He's like he's putting in that work to steer a big ship in the right direction, which is very refreshing. But a lot of people, I think, just pull the parachute and do their own thing, right? The amount I have so much, I have tremendous respect for Mike. I'm meeting up with him. I have a dinner with him next week in San Diego. But people like him that are at big, that's the people that we need because you are, you're onto something and you're 100%, right? Like if you have that mentality of like, I want to change things, I want to like be in the industry, you're going to be so quickly discouraged by the big wave or by the mold of what it is. You're just like this one little person like poking at like a big behemoth way, you know, like, like force, so to speak. To continue doing that and being and still seeing the vision and still seeing it past everybody saying no to you because I've been there, you know, it's very discouraging and I think you're 100% right. I also think that my prediction would be in like the next two to three years, even if everybody keeps doing this like bigger push and more people join the, you know, to be like Mike, I think that the industry is going to gravitate still more towards even their top talent going to smaller firms, smaller firms that like in my ship example, got big four and big firms at operating like a cruise ship, you know, and you have like the Brandon Halls, the, you know, Chase Berkey's of the world, operating like a little, you know, very maneuverable, you know, twin engine, you know, little boat that's like 50 feet, you know, yeah, you could turn that on the dime, as you could tell, like boats, you could turn it on the dime, and you know, and operate it and that's where it is that talent is going to go because they want that flexibility, some I'm not going to say all of them, but you know, there is and there is and there are a lot of pluses to the big firm. So it's just such an interesting mix to see where it all goes. But that's the idea, the fund CBA, I wanted to help people at scale, I wanted to help the staff, I want to be able to do, you know, like kind of helped drive the industry forward. And at the same time, obviously, it helps my own brand and you know, speaking engagements and all that kind of stuff. So that's the short of it. Interesting. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm right with you. I really hope to see transformation. But at the same time, I very much do think that it'll just become a bigger and bigger competitive advantage to people who've kind of made the leap and, you know, are attracting top talent at that point, I think eventually being on PE backed is going to be a huge competitive advantage, huge competitive advantage, PE, we can talk about that. And my thoughts on that. I mean, I know a few people that are in PE, I think the most people that benefit from that are going to be your partners that have received absurd amount of money, especially even even younger equity partners, you know, like, like, you know, that just started. But the issue with that is, yes, like PE firms got a lot of money. And yes, PE firms will bring that capital infusion and stuff. And yes, they have some ability, but what are they doing? Right? They're just, they don't want it's not a long term play. Accounting is not a flippable business, in my mind. Yeah, you know, and their model is, you know, buy the business, make it efficient, sell the business in three to five years for you know, in profit. Maybe that's not the play with the accounting firms. But then why, you know, it's not like it's generating such, you know, tremendous huge cash flows. And the biggest and the biggest thing that I see with it, which is the scariest in my mind, is the impact on staff. Because, you know, what's the only way you make an accounting firm more efficient is beating up the staff even more than already being beat up. Yeah, you know, maybe putting in some some technology and such. Sure. But that's what's going to come down to your human, you know, resources, maybe the push for hours will be even higher and then everybody will quit. So yes, non PE backed is going to be the move, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah, I think, like, kind of, like you said, I think there's going to be some good that comes from it. Like, there's going to be better tech, there's going to be certain things like that. But I think there's also going to be a lot of negative, whereas people are already overworked for what feels like undercompensated. And I actually I did like a, like a little like award season newsletter, but I kind of did, you know, I shared out like the best firms in terms of employee satisfaction and hours worked and all that. And then Blake Oliver messages me and he goes, Oh, that's cool. Who are the worst, though? He was just looking to stir up some stuff. And and the firm that ranked the lowest was CBiz, I believe it is PE backed. And then, yes. CLA was another kind of lower, lower ranked one, but I believe it was CBiz was was the kind of lowest ranked. And I used to work on the newsletter. But oh, yeah. Interesting. How was that? I mean, I was like an intern slash like I just got my first it was like my very first full time offer. And I took it. And then a month later, I actually ended up moving to Florida. So I didn't get my full experience there. But it was fine. I mean, I learned a good amount. Oh, man, so many ways we can go with this. But you know, the industry as a whole, the public accounting industry, big firms have so much to offer, man, so much learning. It may I'll repeat what I said in the other podcast, too, which is I know for like, I worked at UI Miami, it was pretty much my first full time like job in public accounting in big firms UI for four years, Miami and Boca Raton office. And I don't think that I would be in this profession still or probably I don't even honestly, I don't know where I would be. If I had started a new I like New York. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like no shot. Like, I used to meet up with people. I was a new one, Miami, it was good. We would all go to the centralized trainings for seniors for whatever promotions or every year. And I would speak to my counterparts at the other, you know, like locations and the New York people, I remember distinctly like, would complain to me, they'll be like, Oh, you know, can you imagine like the staff? Like, they're getting up at 1am from their tables, like from their desks and going home? I'm like, what? Yes, I can imagine that. What are you doing? Like, you know, and I would tell them, they'll be like, I'm like, What time are you working until they'll be like, three, 4am? Like, what quality work? What garbage are you putting out? At I mean, I can, I'm putting out garbage at 9pm, man, like, I'm done. You know, what garbage at 2pm. Sometimes I put garbage at 10am. You know, but, you know, listen, but on an average day, I'm pretty decent. You know, garbage factor, I'm going to call it goes up, you know, after 3pm, I get tired. But, um, but yeah, man, like, what type of garbage are you putting out there at two or 3am? And you know, I used to say this to my staff, like that when I when I work, it's always always the return that you pick up at like, 10pm or whatever, 9pm to start working on it. That is going to be with that partner you never worked for before. And the one you're going to can I curse? Oh, yeah, go ahead. And the way the one part you're going to fuck up with. Yeah, right. Because it's the one you're going, you're gonna mess it up. And it's going to be the first time you work with them. And they're going to light you up on that review. Oh, yeah, 100%. It has been my experience. They like, all the time, like, it'll be like that moment, like 6pm, or whatever. And I'll be sitting there going, Oh, man, you know, like, I feel like I'll be sitting there going, you know, I feel like I should like go home, or whatever, at least have dinner or something. But now I already still sitting that factory where you're going, like, looking above, like you're looking above your cubicle to see if anybody else is getting up. Nobody else is getting up. So you're like, Okay, fine, I'll do another one. I pick up that partners return brand new first time return seemingly easy. I'll fuck it up. Oh, yeah, every time. Yeah. And then I was delivered thinking and it's amazing. And it is the biggest pile of shit. Like the and I messed it up, whatever, because I'm tired, right? And then and then that partner, there is no fixing that. There is no fixing that reputation once and that's it. And I got lit up and those evaluations, man. Yeah, but and of course, like, I mean, just my luck, naturally, like that's some sort of partner because you know, politics and shit. That's the sort of partner that then has all the leverage for some reason. In these and now my my like pay was was was, you know, not as good. Dude, it's so the short of it is don't pick up that return at 6pm. Like, go home, take the break, have some dinner. And go pick up like if you know, pick up the return. If you still got some juice left in it, and if not, then do it tomorrow. Like, there's nothing worse than than screwing yourself or but to go back like, yeah, they would complain about that. Like, you know, oh, you know, can you believe it? Yes, I can believe it. Because they're tired. And yes, I can believe it. Like, and that's the mentality that you have. And like, if I was in New York, I, I can't, I can't even do one day like that, let alone like a busy season. Great. No, yeah. And like, we're not compensated enough for it. Like in in banking, right? Like, that's the case. And actually, I forget where I heard this. But what I heard actually really explained it where it's like, yeah, like they get paid a ton. And it's like, listen, I'm not paying you because you're the best at, you know, Excel and, right. And, and, you know, PowerPoint and whatever, I'm paying you to be available at any given moment, whenever I need it to be good at these things, right? Yeah. Whereas like, in in accounting firms, that's not necessarily a case. And compensation has, has done some progress in the last couple of years, which is good, has made some progress. But like, it's still not something to justify kind of selling your soul for. Absolutely not. No. But I do. And on but on the flip side, I will say this, like, again, I, as much as I as much as I should talk the profession, and I should talk these big firms, I learned so much from these firms, man, like, yeah, I owe my whole career to them. Because obviously, you don't learn anything in school, you learn it on the job. And I will say that there is a, you know, the learning is unmatched. And so when people would ask me sometimes, like, hey, you know, you're like, I'm at a big four, what should I do? Should I leave to go smaller? I'm like, what's your end goal? Right? If your end goal is to be out on your own, or whatever, and you're and the key is, are you doing what you enjoy, at least from a work perspective? If the answer is yes, stick around for another year or two, because that will solidify that knowledge that you have, there's nothing that I'm more thankful for than the fact that I stuck around in this profession, in the bigger firms for 12 years. Because that experience that I got has made me so comfortable with pretty, I mean, 99.99% of the returns that come across my way now. And I also know what I want to take on what I don't want to take on. Yeah, I know complexity, from a five minute conversation to either refer it out, or say, yeah, I can handle that. And be able to handle it with no problem. So I think that that has really been my big win from the bigger firms. And there's a lot to be said about, about going there and about having that experience. Now it does come at a call like I mean, it sucks. 70 hours a week is awful. And the treatment is not it's, you know, it's, it's unfortunate that that that gets kind of painted over the industry as a whole. And I think there are definitely some big issues to be addressed there. But like, there's little pockets of good to write, like the partner that I worked with, like, I talked about him a lot, like, he's, he's the best. He was great. He was a really, like, you know, he's a people person. He cared about the staff. And yeah, you know, it was like, hey, yeah, like, gonna have to put in those late nights. Sorry, kind of is what it is. But like, I'll be there. Like, we'll talk. He like got like a bunch of nerf guns one year, like playing nerf in the hallways. And like, little things like that, like make a big difference. Same with like my coach, like, guy was a workhorse, like working, it was actually probably concerning. But like, he actually tried to like shield staff from it a little bit. And he was like, Listen, I'm doing this because I love it. And like, I have certain ambitions. And he made partner at like 30. That's huge. But you know, he was like, I don't want you to do this. From my experience with with seven firms, you know, and, and all all sizes down to like 100 person firm up to you know, the eyes. It's all I've learned is like the work itself is the same. I mean, I don't care what they tell you at the interview, the work you're going to be doing is the same. So so you know, don't don't imagine you're going to any firm. And you're gonna be doing something so amazingly unique and different. No, you're gonna be doing the same shit. The difference is the people. And that is the toughest part. You could be in the most toxic firm. I have one I'm thinking of right now that I worked at. But your team is just incredibly like, you know, they're an incredible team of people. And you are in the best place that you can ride out your entire career in there, as long as they got your back, it's it. And in the same time, you can be in the best firm that's out there talking the best about themselves, which isn't always true. But you know, like, and everybody in the firm could be the happiest person ever. But you just happen to have landed with the one partner that sucks, and does not fit that firms, you know, whatever it is, whether by merger, typically, it's by merger, and you just got assigned to the new merged partner. And it's game over, man. Like, and I think that that part of it is challenging. And again, to go back to a fun CPA thing, like, it's a wake up to try to, you know, everybody should strive to be a good people person. Because at the end of the day, this business is not about anything other than people. That's your own people first and the client second. Yeah, yeah, that's an important distinction, your own people first client second, because a lot of the times, yes, it's not the same. And I think so much goodwill got bought at our firm when like, you know, there's a client cussing out this poor senior, blah, blah, blah. Not even a second question, partner gets on the phone, hey, we're not dealing with you anymore, figure it out by and like, that like changed the entire tone of the entire office for like months, right? Like that. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that quote, that right there is what everybody should be doing. And I can say from my own personal experience that it is that it is not what is done. No, no, absolutely not. I was it was flipped on me. Or, you know, like, I was once told by a partner, you know, when I would like, it was, I don't remember exactly what happened. I think, you know, I got a new client. I'm like, you know, it's overloading already, whatever, like saying, and I'd be like, you know, who pays your salary, Yuri? And I'm like, like, that clients, so shut up, get back to work, you know, because that's who's paying your clients. So you take care of that. And that and see in the complete flip side of what you just described is what at least in the northeast, I know that is rampant, you know? So the point being is like the industry, the profession needs to just understand that as a people profession, your people coming first, and then the clients and everybody understands they got to do the client work, that's fine. But if a client is cursing at you, which has happened to me to, you know, like cursing and yelling at the top of his lungs, because he was not happy about something, you know, that had nothing to do with me or whatever it is. And even if it did, like in the end, and the response from the partner, like, yes, they had my back. It wasn't like throw me under the bus thing. But at the same time, it wasn't like an immediate, you know, get out of here and that and that speaks volumes. So yeah, you had a good experience. I love to hear that. Yeah. So to kind of like pivot a little bit here, I'm curious to kind of talk about your business. So you are pretty much a sole practitioner right now, right? Yeah, pretty much me and a bookkeeper. But yeah. Do you find that that's been like a really big lifestyle upgrade versus working at a firm? Or is it kind of like you're paying your dues right now to be able to kind of be able to scale something? Yeah, this is a, this is a really great question, man. Thank you. Because everybody talks about the entrepreneurship and how it's amazing and how it's so flexible and everything, but it has a cost, especially on that initial like solo with one other person, kind of gig, you're, you know, you're wearing all the hats, the marketing hat, the presenter hat, the D, you know, the business development hat, the the work, actual work itself hat, the admin hat, billing, all this crap is on me. Whereas before, there's obviously a team, there's people, you know, whatever, there's always someone a resource, I can I can send off something to a staff or an admin person, an HR person, whatever. So the flip side to the W two, like, so you know, when a lot of people say to me, would you ever, or you know, should I leave or whatever it is entrepreneurship better than being on my own? Or rather than being in a firm? The answer to me is, how happy are you at your firm? Because if the answer is 85% happy, like I'm just a little bit annoyed about certain things, just just frickin stay there. Yeah, because I'm telling you right now going out on your own is not going to give you that 15% happiness, it might take away 30% of your happiness, because you're doing so much. So yeah, that's my one thought. Now, the other question to say like, I when I left my firm, and I can jump into the story of shared before on LinkedIn and everything, but I can go into that story of what exactly transpired. But it forced me to take on basically a contracting role. Again, nothing I do is intentional. Remember that that's the premise of this of this podcast. But you know, nothing I do is intentional. So you know, I went out and I got a contracting role to get paid me 75 bucks an hour. Right. And I took on 10 hours to 20 hours a week to keep the lights on and to be able to grow the firm in the way that I want to grow the firm. And I will recommend this to every single person that has asked me so far, how should I go about starting my practice? My answer is, don't just go pick up whatever clients, it's use the skills that you have to contract to get that money in the door. So you don't feel like tight and on money and and dying right away, you know, and then build it as you can. And my way of building in my dream firm from day one, as was I don't want to work more than 40 hours a week, ever at any point in the year, business isn't included. And now how do I get there, you know, high fees will will reduce the amount of clients that you have reduced the amount of bothers and all that, right? And then basically, have a limit on how many clients you can take, and understand your limitations. And then that's how you work backwards from that. And then, you know, and then as the season is moving along, just just be mindful of that, see what is happening. And if you're exceeding that 40 hours, and obviously 4045, you know, as you get closer to tax, the deadline is fine. But you know, not more than that. And that's where I basically how I built the firm. So right now, you know, I mean, I'm at a point where, with my current client workload, and everybody I've taken on in 2023 for the 20, you know, for this past tax season, this was it for like, it's tight. And it's weird to say it, that it's tight. Because, like, I didn't work that much. Yeah. So it's this weird dynamic where I'm saying, it's like, I feel like I can't take on any more work. And I have to figure out how to scale this thing somehow. While also being like, I worked dude, like four to five hours a day. Pretty much most of the tax season probably should have worked more. But I was out there having a good time. And on the flip side, and obviously, then the kids and all that, like my window of having of getting work done is short in general. Plus, I had gym commitments. Yeah. So no, I mean, that's super healthy, right? Yeah. Like, I wish I wish there were more places where you could be like, you know, actually trust them when they say like, hey, you're not actually going to work late here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So and I think there is this whole culture of like, you know, you got to grind always more, more, more. I think that that's totally fine to not sign up for that. And you know what, you can still achieve scale without doing that you just might need to hire someone three months earlier than you would have otherwise. And, and that's all it is. Right. So yeah, it's the scariest thing, though. scariest thing to do, because you hire someone. It's what I'm grappling with right now, to be perfectly honest, you know, do I hire someone full time to help me with the tax work? When I just worked four to five hours a day tops for most of tax season until the last maybe two weeks, two to three weeks where I worked eight to nine hours a day. Do I hire someone so that what am I going to do? Yeah, right. Like, so as much as I know what I'm going to do, I'm going to bring in more business, right? Yeah. But like, it's, it's tough. It's tough to sit, you know, to sit there and justify that. If I was making if I was a $500,000, this would be an easy answer, gross revenue, but I'm like, 230 250. Yeah, you know, and so yes, I could still do it. But so it's just such a such a fundamental dynamic that, you know, that's, that's tough to justify. And sometimes I think, I mean, I'd be happy staying here. I mean, it's not a bad dollar amount. I'm making more money than I made it before when I was employed. But I don't know, man. You know, everybody wants to grow. Yeah, I'm sure you've had conversations with them before. But I feel like, you know, speaking with Logan, and someone who's kind of just done their first hire, I think is is a really good place to go for that. And that's kind of part of what I hope to do with this podcast, too, is like, you know, you hear people talk through their whole things, like, what helped me launch big for transparency was literally just I was listening to all these, like, you know, my first million indie hackers, and I was just like, it became very normal to be like, Oh, like build cool little hacky things and launch them. And then from there, I kind of learned and was able to proceed, right. So I think someone who's in those shoes, like, hearing you tell your journey of when you do pull that trigger and do the first hire and be transparent about how you felt and all that, like, I think it's huge. It's huge. We are ingrained in this. And I mean, obviously other professions too, but I only speak to what I know, which is my, you know, staying in my lane thing. But we in public accounting are very, very huge on like, not sharing anything and not being transparent, and not saying how much we make, and not, you know, and all these firms keeping all that secret, it is the most well guarded secret. So what you're doing is, is huge. And I love it, leveraging that. And what you just said is also very true. I mean, speaking to the Logans, to the Chase, Chase, and I had like an hour long conversation like a year ago, you know, he's the most down to earth dude, you know, doing what he's doing. And, and, and, you know, it's huge. And the craziest thing is this underworld underground world that exists on LinkedIn is the wildest thing that has that that I've realized after I started posting and get, you know, and seeing all this and now consuming all this content of people that I'm like, wow, like this existed the whole frickin time, like I've been thinking this and I've just been like, casually trolling, not trolling, casually scrolling LinkedIn beforehand. You know, I mean, like I wasn't as heavily involved. Now I arguably spent too much time on there. But you know, that's, that's what it is, man. Like we need to share like that. We need to share the journey. And yeah, man, some good points you bring up maybe by the end of the year, probably end up hiring someone. Yeah, I look forward to kind of hearing about that. I want to follow along. I'm sure you're gonna post all about it. And yeah, you know, for anyone who feels like they want to kind of get into practice, like I think they should really follow you and look for that. Because I think, I think that, again, just seeing someone do it, like I have a I have a buddy that I used to work with, who's got like this side business practice, but it's like, I'm pretty sure he must be at least 100 grand. And I'm like, dude, like, start, like, just go, just go. And I feel like as he's listening to episodes and like hearing about whatever, like he might be like getting closer to doing it. And I'm like, I think that that's so important. And just having people sharing that journey kind of makes it possible. I get messages like that all the time. And it blows my mind the numbers that you would like you just said, it blows my mind the numbers that these people are doing on the side, dude, I had $15,000 on the side. Before I left, like family friends, whatever. Yeah. And, and I was drowning at working 6070 hours a week at a firm plus another couple hours a week for my own things, making 10 to 15. And these people that are hitting me up are like, yeah, so I have like $150,000 on the side. I'm like, what? Yeah, it's like you do you understand? What are you doing? Yeah, I would quit in November, which is my initial intent, but whatever, like, you know, to do when I was at the firm, quit in November. And then and then, you know, I will be dude, I would have made my salary and if I had $150,000 in the three months, and then I could figure out what that's nuts. Like, but again, you know, a lot of people will say was extra $150,000. And I get it. But yeah, so much more to it than that. If you built up $150,000, you can leave and go figure it out and have the vast, wide open world available to you of self. Yeah. Yeah, this is like a weird a weird topic for this podcast. But like, yeah, you have to not let that creep into your lifestyle and not learn to count on it. If if you eventually hope to make that jump, right. So like, that's for me, like my tax clients, I was like, either I cut this off here, or I'm gonna learn to rely on this $15,000. Yeah, I'm just gonna be miserable every April. So I was like, Nope, Kate done move on, boom. And then big for transparency, like, I'm not pulling out any money. Like, I'm just kind of like, this is its own thing, right? Because I'm like, I don't want to learn to live off of a job plus income from this plus whatever, like, need to be able to like cut those ties. And then you're pulling yourself in a million directions, right? Like you're, you're trying to satisfy the bosses at the, you know, main, main job, whatever you're doing and do well and get your reward. But the reality when you have your stuff on the side, and if the stuff on the side is that large, you're really just coasting at your job, there's no way that you're doing top performer stuff at a bigger firm or whatever. You're just coasting along, you're doing an okay job, but you're not, you know, like, you're not going to be the first person they think of as a partner. Yeah, because you got $150,000 of work on the side like that is nuts. I mean, kudos to all these people. I know if someone right now I'm thinking of my, you know, one of my friends that has that and it's crazy, you know, which is unfortunate, because that person probably would be the best partner. But it's, it's, it's that tug of war, right, where the firm's not willing to make it worth their while financially, and they're not willing to drop that. So it's like, yeah, it creates that like, tough tension. It does. It does. It does create that tension. And it makes it difficult. Yeah. But I get it. Yeah. Um, I have a couple, I guess, rapid fire questions here. So I had a couple things on the docket that I was like, gonna talk about. But then we had this great conversation about everything and nothing. So yeah. So one of the ones even I'm personally interested in this, how has kind of had having like a social media presence and maybe running a podcast? How has that affected your career and business growth? Another good question, man. Solid. Thank you. So social media is a grind. Yeah. I, you know, and the interesting thing is, again, because there's no agenda, I don't market like I never market directly on anything that I do, right? None of my posts will ever say hire me. You know, if you want more from, you know, if you want to learn more, hire me and you know, let's do it. I don't want to do that. I want to provide the value I want to provide the, you know, knowledge and expertise and you come to me because of that, which has happened on multiple occasions. And it's great. And I'm very, very, you know, just mind blown. And honestly humbled by all of that trajectory that has happened from posting, you know, I couldn't even imagine to be like, you know, doing keynote speeches, like, dude, like even even, even six months ago, I couldn't imagine that. And now I still can't imagine it. You know, so and all that was from social media. So the grind is worth it. The downside of the grind is the time, obviously, probably spent three to four hours a day. Easily, if I was to measure and I don't, and I probably should, so that I could, I don't know. And by the way, that's what and that's between LinkedIn, Instagram, and like a little bit of whatever Facebook and stuff that I do. Instagram, I don't care about really, I mean, you know, like, I'll just post I mean, realistically speaking, I don't. Like, I don't care. I don't plan my posts. I don't do much of that. Like last week, I missed out an entire week where like, who cares? You know, and I don't plan again, I don't think it's literally just in the morning, I'll think about what I'm going to post maybe for like 510 minutes, then I'll post it up and let it go. See how it does and adjust with the metrics, but answering comments, looking through it, scrolling around and doing all that. And you know, maintaining that because you know, people commenting, especially if you're getting 5060 comments, like, got to answer them, that'll take you a solid hour, sometimes. So it's a grind. The podcast that I have, I pivoted a little bit. So you know, basically, it was about, you know, leaving your W two job and going to self employment, much like my journey. But the intent was, again, just to share the stories of people. And to this day, it's still the intent. The only difference is I don't, you know, I don't I didn't have a plan for it to monetize. I didn't have a plan for to do affiliate marketing. I didn't have a plan for any of that. And quite frankly, the numbers aren't really there to do so. But what it does is it just solid again, it solidifies further, the differentiator of being the fun CPA of doing things different, so that when a potential client is like, Oh, yeah, you're you know, I mean, like, should I hire him to go Google me and have see all the stuff that I'm doing LinkedIn, podcast, YouTube, Instagram, blah, blah, blah, it just solidifies the fact that, damn, he's doing a lot of stuff. Yeah, and he's out there, and he's sharing knowledge, and he's knowledgeable. And you can go look at all the knowledge that I'm sharing for free. And that's that. I've also pivoted on the podcast side of things to now only doing in person. Because I, a lot is lost in my mind, in my opinion, you know, like, in my approach on the virtual, you know, I think Riverside is good is a good platform to like, it's solid. But I feel like, you know, just just sometimes it just gets lost in there. You know, it gets, you're not seeing the person, you know, you're not sharing that same kind of connect connection in person. But that's just my own take. So now I've only I've only been taking on people who are in person. Nice. Yeah, if I could get you down to Ottawa to record. Yeah, listen, man. Yeah, it's I mean, you have the benefit of being in a little bit of a metropolitan area. And I love that, like, I find an in person podcast is, is super beneficial. And I think like the energy that it conveys is very, very different. And I got nothing against these, I got, you know, nothing against the virtual ones is just like you said, is the energy to me. And that's what I'm about. That's what I want to bring in in person. Just has a better vibe and better connection and everything. But yeah, the value is still there equally as much. Yeah. Okay, next one is, does being primarily in tax make it a lot harder for you to scale your firm? Yes, and no. So I still offer like the bookkeeping, I still offer the consulting, the tax planning and all that stuff. But I can't say that it that it prevents from scaling because again, the business, thankfully, thank God, you know, is continuously growing, the referrals are coming in, you know, I just had before this podcast was on like, you know, prospect client meeting, I think the challenge with the tax with a like a 95 or whatever 90% tax practice is that, you know, yeah, you extend the returns. And yes, you push out some of the income to further and I do have some recurring clients that pay monthly. The challenge is that you like it's, it's harder to control the the inflow of money, essentially inflow, like I'm trying to grow right now the recurring monthly billing, monthly revenue, with the bookkeeping, tax and consulting all in one. I think it's very possible to grow a really healthy and good firm with tax, primarily tax clients, but you may want to reconsider how you price that. Like, you know, I have a lot of I have a lot of clients on quarterly, which again, helps fund the future beyond the tax season. And I have a bunch on on monthly as well. Cool. Thanks for that answer. And then last question I have this for everyone I usually do is, what advice would you have for someone either considering entering the profession or like just a brand new, fresh, young professional who wants to make the most of it? Yeah, that's a that's another great question. If you're about to enter this profession, I think you're entering an incredibly at an incredibly great time, actually, because even though yes, I post my saucy Fridays, and yes, I, you know, Reddit and all these other platforms make the accounting industry look grim. But I think there's so much opportunity in the industry, especially given the pipeline issues that we, you know, have, is that now what you know, you soak in the information, because the the resources you're going to have access to, especially at the bigger firms are vast, learn, learn, learn. And what I tell everybody is be a sponge. Just soak up all the information, learn as much as you can. And you don't have to, you don't have to figure out what you're going to do with it. At the moment, don't get so focused on that. Just soak up the information, try to spend as much time as you can, in the bigger firms or in the industry, you know, learning before you do anything like go private or go on your own firm or anything. And then maybe four or five years in, if you've made it that long, you know, like you have now the arsenal to be able to use those knowledges and skills for clients with a, you know, enough kind of experience that you have like a good standing and, you know, in the profession. And the other thing I will say is, stand up for yourself. Because I think that that is that is what I did my entire career, and people did not like it, it doesn't bode well, nobody likes wave makers, nobody likes that you like, they like people who are robots and just do whatever they're told. But stand up for yourself, in the experience, specifically in the experience side of things, if you want to have, if you want to go work on 1040s, high net worth 1040s, but you're stuck in in, you know, corporate land, C corpse, then you got to go and you got to say, Hey, you know, can I please work on C corpse? I mean, sorry, on 1040s, you know, can I please work on that again? And if that firm is not willing to do it, then reach out to me and I will put you into a firm that's willing to work with you and and put you in your experience that you need because the experience that you want to get if you're not being provided that you're gonna be miserable if you're not already miserable. But those are the things that I would say. Awesome. Yeah, that's, that's great advice. And, you know, I liked a little caveat on that, too, because I definitely caused a lot of waves. And I think that that, you know, brought a lot of issues, but I definitely, I got to work on every single one of the best projects that came through the firm's doors. Yep. And that made my experience just way better. And, again, like on the back of having put my hand up to ask to be part of the crypto team, like I, I walked out of there with like a pretty good clientele. And I could have I could have scaled that easily to a full time income. I just easily hated the work. So it's, you know, that's not the avenue I wanted to do. But yeah, you know, it created those opportunities for me. So I think that's awesome advice. Yeah. Yeah. And there's only one way to know what you want to work on. And that is by trying it and doing it. That's it. You know, and that's the main issue that that, you know, people get stuck people don't want to create waves, they do what they what they, you know, don't like, they hate, and then they get miserable. And then they take that misery out, unfortunately, on staff. And there you have the inherent public accounting problem. Yeah. Yeah, very true. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining Yuri. I look forward to hearing the news of your first hire. I'll be I'll be staying on top of you for that. And I'll make sure to link all your socials here down below Yuri is a fantastic follow. So I would recommend everyone go check them out. Thank you. Thanks for having me on the show. Again, I really appreciate it. Yeah, pleasure. Thanks for joining.